Question - Karate?

[Xue Sheng]

I have seen this in 3 different martial arts schools in my area, they say "Karate" but when you get to their website it says they actually teach Pentjak Silat, which I know little about, other that is in Indonesian in origin and decidedly not Japanese or Okinawan. I also noticed, ron tier website, all schools are wearing Gis and have belt ranks.

Not sure what this means or what style it is supposed to be, is this common for Pentjak Silat schools to call themselves Karate? Does Pentjak Silat use a belt ranking system? Any thoughts on this?

On a side note, it appears at least one of these schools did not survive the pandemic and it is possible another one may not either, it is listed as temporarily closed. The school that is still running says it is Pukulan Kilat Pentjak Silat

 

[Oily Dragon]

I have seen this in 3 different martial arts schools in my area, they say "Karate" but when you get to their website it says they actually teach Pentjak Silat, which I know little about, other that is in Indonesian in origin and decidedly not Japanese or Okinawan. I also noticed, ron tier website, all schools are wearing Gis and have belt ranks.

Not sure what this means or what style it is supposed to be, is this common for Pentjak Silat schools to call themselves Karate? Does Pentjak Silat use a belt ranking system? Any thoughts on this?

On a side note, it appears at least one of these schools did not survive the pandemic and it is possible another one may not either, it is listed as temporarily closed. The school that is still running says it is Pukulan Kilat Pentjak Silat

I saw a great meme for this phenomenon, but my Google fu is poor so it might take me a while to find it.

Here's something to pass the time.

 

[Oily Dragon]

My memory's better than I thought.

Yours is all the way at the end.

 

[Yokozuna514]

I have seen this in 3 different martial arts schools in my area, they say "Karate" but when you get to their website it says they actually teach Pentjak Silat, which I know little about, other that is in Indonesian in origin and decidedly not Japanese or Okinawan. I also noticed, ron tier website, all schools are wearing Gis and have belt ranks.

Not sure what this means or what style it is supposed to be, is this common for Pentjak Silat schools to call themselves Karate? Does Pentjak Silat use a belt ranking system? Any thoughts on this?

On a side note, it appears at least one of these schools did not survive the pandemic and it is possible another one may not either, it is listed as temporarily closed. The school that is still running says it is Pukulan Kilat Pentjak Silat

I can't speak to the commonality of Penchat Silak schools using the name 'karate' as the umbrella term for what they do in their school but I can understand 'why' they would. Penchat Silat, is indeed an Indonesian MA, but to my knowledge has no sport aspect to their system. The Penchat Silat that I am somewhat acquainted with is the Serak System which is essentially an MA system that focuses on strikes and kicks that are meant to damage joints or disable your opponent by attacking vital organs. There is no belt system that I know of being used although there may be some schools that are trying to adopt a way to standardize the progression within the system.

I expect they are using 'karate' as the umbrella term for the MA because Penchat Silat as a MA is not well known outside of Asia. May also stop people from coming in and thinking it is some type of restaurant.

 

[skribs]

There's a phenomenon where often the most popular brand of a product or service becomes the common name for that product or service. The big one I remember is Xerox. "I'm going to Xerox these bulletins before church service tomorrow." Xerox is a company that makes copiers. The term for the machine is a "copier." The verb for using it is "making copies". Yet, people will use Xerox as the machine name or as the verb, even if it's not a Xerox machine. You have Sharp, Canon, Ricoh, Konica Minolta, Kyocera, Toshiba, HP, Lexmark, Dell. All of these companies make copiers. Yet if you have a Dell copier, someone will still say "I'm going to Xerox these documents on the Xeroxer."

(Note: spell check didn't even correct Xeroxer).

The same applies for Karate. I believe that Karate Kid was a big influence behind this. For people who just want to start martial arts, I'm sure just as many people google "Karate Near Me" as do "Martial Arts Near Me". More recently, MMA is probably a pretty popular one, too. Most other arts don't have quite the same name recognition that Karate has. A lot of them are close. Silat is not one of them.

Heck, half my students' parents and a quarter of my students say they're in Karate class. I teach Taekwondo.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Heck, half my students' parents and a quarter of my students say they're in Karate class. I teach Taekwondo.

I started my martial arts career 41 years ago at a TKD school with a big sign in front saying "Kim's Karate."

 

[skribs]

I started my martial arts career 41 years ago at a TKD school with a big sign in front saying "Kim's Karate."

And that was before SEO.

 

[MetalBoar]

I have seen this in 3 different martial arts schools in my area, they say "Karate" but when you get to their website it says they actually teach Pentjak Silat, which I know little about, other that is in Indonesian in origin and decidedly not Japanese or Okinawan. I also noticed, ron tier website, all schools are wearing Gis and have belt ranks.

Not sure what this means or what style it is supposed to be, is this common for Pentjak Silat schools to call themselves Karate? Does Pentjak Silat use a belt ranking system? Any thoughts on this?

On a side note, it appears at least one of these schools did not survive the pandemic and it is possible another one may not either, it is listed as temporarily closed. The school that is still running says it is Pukulan Kilat Pentjak Silat

I find it fascinating that you live someplace with any public, storefront, Silat schools, much less 3! I studied Silat briefly in Seattle and I'm pretty sure that there were only 2 different guys teaching Silat in the entire greater Seattle area and both were garage schools where you kind of had to know someone to get an invite. It definitely wasn't advertised as karate (to the extent that it was advertised) and there were no gis, and no belt ranks, and while I'm sure those are used in some schools it's an American adaptation.

EDIT: I just remembered that there was a storefront place that was teaching Silat for a while but they seemed kind of culty to me and didn't seem to be teaching the martial art so much as the spiritual/cultural aspect (or their interpretation of it), sort of like the original Dahn Hak places teaching "Tai Chi". Still no karate marketing.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I find it fascinating that you live someplace with any public, storefront, Silat schools, much less 3! I studied Silat briefly in Seattle and I'm pretty sure that there were only 2 different guys teaching Silat in the entire greater Seattle area and both were garage schools where you kind of had to know someone to get an invite. It definitely wasn't advertised as karate (to the extent that it was advertised) and there were no gis, and no belt ranks, and while I'm sure those are used in some schools it's an American adaptation.

EDIT: I just remembered that there was a storefront place that was teaching Silat for a while but they seemed kind of culty to me and didn't seem to be teaching the martial art so much as the spiritual/cultural aspect (or their interpretation of it), sort of like the original Dahn Hak places teaching "Tai Chi". Still no karate marketing.

They are not store front, never said they were. I come across them in web searches and other places, then look out of curiosity because I like to know what MA schools are in my area. And I was in error, there were 4. But my guess is the one that is closed is originally from the one that is temporarily closed. And the one that is still running has 2 locations.... one of those being a class at a local YMCA. But the websites all say Karate, but you read the about it says Silat. And all pictures they have on the site are showing gis and belt ranks

Note: just checked, it appears the one that was temporarily closed, has reopened

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I started my martial arts career 41 years ago at a TKD school with a big sign in front saying "Kim's Karate."

I still tell people I train karate. Only one art I've done for a significant amount of time has karate in its name, it's the third word after two other styles, and likely added for that reason. It's just easier to tell people "I've got karate tonight" Then it is to say I'm going to kempo, or going to kali, or sambo, and then having to explain what that is. Especially since the end result is "so that's like karate, right?" and that's what they remember.

I imagine that's tenfold for dojo owners.

 

[Alan0354]

I have seen this in 3 different martial arts schools in my area, they say "Karate" but when you get to their website it says they actually teach Pentjak Silat, which I know little about, other that is in Indonesian in origin and decidedly not Japanese or Okinawan. I also noticed, ron tier website, all schools are wearing Gis and have belt ranks.

Not sure what this means or what style it is supposed to be, is this common for Pentjak Silat schools to call themselves Karate? Does Pentjak Silat use a belt ranking system? Any thoughts on this?

On a side note, it appears at least one of these schools did not survive the pandemic and it is possible another one may not either, it is listed as temporarily closed. The school that is still running says it is Pukulan Kilat Pentjak Silat

Karate is a well known name, people can relate to it. My school was TKD, more kick boxing. BUT, the sign outside is "Karate"!!! Just if you put the real name, people don't relate to it as they don't even know what it is.

 

[jks9199]

And, KARATE is 6 letters... and probably easier to get onto a sign... SILAT may only be 5... but you'd probably get people looking for a restaurant or flooring or something...

 

[Dirty Dog]

Karate is a word that pretty much everyone recognizes. For better or worse, it's used as a generic catch-all name.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Back in 1973, the only category of MA in US labor department was Judo. If you were a Karate instructor, you would be hired as a Judo instructor in US.

 

[tekkikarate]

My memory's better than I thought.

Yours is all the way at the end.

View attachment 28526

Reminds me of the meme where the mom refers to every game console as “Nintendo”. When I saw that I could easily picture the same mom enrolling her kids in a martial arts class other than karate and still calling it as such. But it’s interesting that my own mom mistakenly referred to it as “Tae Kwon Do” a couple times in the 90s when I started training in Shotokan Karate. Granted I was in college a couple hours away from home and there were more TKD schools near where my parents lived than actual karate dojo, but my parents were never into martial arts and were taken aback that I ultimately gravitated toward having a deep interest.

 

[tekkikarate]

Back in 1973, the only category of MA in US labor department was Judo. If you were a Karate instructor, you would be hired as a Judo instructor in US.

I think “judo” was the catch all generic term until the 80s when “karate” seemed to become it. I remember kids on the playground jokingly claiming to “know judo” in the early 80s but after the Karate Kid movies and the Chuck Norris films held sway in the middle of the decade, everything was the K word. It felt quaint in the 90s when I was in my karate gi coming out of class at my college’s PE building and the janitor asked if “judo” was done for the night so he could mop.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I think “judo” was the catch all generic term until the 80s when “karate” seemed to become it. I remember kids on the playground jokingly claiming to “know judo” in the early 80s but after the Karate Kid movies and the Chuck Norris films held sway in the middle of the decade, everything was the K word. It felt quaint in the 90s when I was in my karate gi coming out of class at my college’s PE building and the janitor asked if “judo” was done for the night so he could mop.

True, had forgot about this, but it did remind me that In the early 70s it was “Kung Fu” thank you David Carradine and his show Kung Fu

Which, by the way, Kung Fu us stI’ll miss used, first it means hard work, not martial arts and the way it is used these days, it is not A specific style but a container of all Chinese martial arts

 

[tekkikarate]

True, had forgot about this, but it did remind me that In the early 70s it was “Kung Fu” thank you David Carradine and his show Kung Fu

Which, by the way, Kung Fu us stI’ll miss used, first it means hard work, not martial arts and the way it is used these days, it is not A specific style but a container of all Chinese martial arts

I’ve gotten “kung fu” thrown around too by people. More when people who don’t know anything about martial arts but want to sound funny and are like “Hey there, kung fu master” while chopping frantically at the air. I knew that kung fu meant that, but I have noticed that CMA schools near me often advertise themselves to be “Wing Chun Kung Fu” or “Hung Gar Kung Fu” as if Kung Fu were the proper name of the specific art but then further comprised of many styles, like karate is.

 

[Oily Dragon]

I’ve gotten “kung fu” thrown around too by people. More when people who don’t know anything about martial arts but want to sound funny and are like “Hey there, kung fu master” while chopping frantically at the air. I knew that kung fu meant that, but I have noticed that CMA schools near me often advertise themselves to be “Wing Chun Kung Fu” or “Hung Gar Kung Fu” as if Kung Fu were the proper name of the specific art but then further comprised of many styles, like karate is.

That's why they call it slang.

You know what, this was not a bad movie, and somehow inadvertently Steve Stifler of all people, whose mother popularized the term "MILF", also helped spread a little Chinese language love with the help of none other than Yow Chun Fat.

Nobody ever talks about Yow Chun Fat anymore. That's a damn shame.

 

[Oily Dragon]

If anybody gets that joke I'll be super impressed.