Putting Others Down

[qwksilver61]

Rude is in,that's just you're opinion is in,I'm smarter than you because my ego is fragile is in,I wasn't there so it couldn't have happened is in,no eye contact you're annoying me as I toss you're change to you is in,I can't see you in person so I can slander you over the internet in definitely in,what else..........

 

[newGuy12]

Well, at least its _known_, that is, it should be not surprise that this happens. Everyone knows that videos get TRASHED with comments.

Now, we know how ridiculous those comments are, and we really shouldn't be surprised to see them, again, and again. Now, some people don't like Eric Raymond. I hold him in high regard. He's an MIT man, he was in the scene "back in the day", he should know. He said in one of his essays that if a flame war breaks out on the web or a message board, that the proper "netiquette" is to NOT JUMP IN. It only makes it worse.

If the comments are ignored (or modded down), that's best. If you "feed the trolls", it is not good netiquette. It only escalates things unnecessarily. Its hard to have restraint, to not "give it back". But it is best practice to not jump into the fray, even if you feel compelled to!


Just remember, LOL:
:trollsign

 

[ciscodog]

ok, maybe im wrong but it seems that were talking about a young breed of ground and pound guys on you tube right? In my opinion its the MMA guys that talk the most crap because their uneducated. For example, BJJ is a great art, trained in it for 11 years in the military, but its not the end all style. Most young people dont realize that Lidell, St.Peirre, among others that came from traditional stand up styles and found the cure for BJJ....a good sprawl and take down defense. And lets be honest, if you've trained in the MA long enough, i dont think you'll have a problem picking up on BJJ or "dirty boxing" A striker can control and dictate the terms of a fight as easily as a ground specialist. They dont understand that MMA is a sport with rules in a set area and not a style originally used in life or death combat. They think that because I practice Shorin Ryu that i must have to fight in a deep zen or something in a ring. They also forget that MMA is MIXED Martial arts, something from everything so to speak. The kids today think they invented knees and elbows, so dont get to frustrated, they will come around in time.

 

[Sukerkin]

That last line of Cisco's there made me smile with recognition of teeth-grinding moments I've had in the past.

 

[tntma12]

I agree that this form of thinking/behaviour is sad. It shows ignorance and a lack of understanding, and a lack of knowlege about the martial arts in general. Most true artist realize that every art has something great to offer and is effective in its own way. There is no style that is better than any other style.

 

[MarkBarlow]

I've received my share of sniping from the shadows and while it's never fun, I've come to view it as a left-handed compliment. After all, you've got to be flying before someone tries to shoot you down. If you're hugging the mud with the masses there's no danger of being singled out and criticized. Personally, I'd rather fly and risk being shot down.

 

[kaizasosei]

yes that is so true. i would never critisize anyone if they did not have talent to begin with.

j

 

[Tez3]

ok, maybe im wrong but it seems that were talking about a young breed of ground and pound guys on you tube right? In my opinion its the MMA guys that talk the most crap because their uneducated. For example, BJJ is a great art, trained in it for 11 years in the military, but its not the end all style. Most young people dont realize that Lidell, St.Peirre, among others that came from traditional stand up styles and found the cure for BJJ....a good sprawl and take down defense. And lets be honest, if you've trained in the MA long enough, i dont think you'll have a problem picking up on BJJ or "dirty boxing" A striker can control and dictate the terms of a fight as easily as a ground specialist. They dont understand that MMA is a sport with rules in a set area and not a style originally used in life or death combat. They think that because I practice Shorin Ryu that i must have to fight in a deep zen or something in a ring. They also forget that MMA is MIXED Martial arts, something from everything so to speak. The kids today think they invented knees and elbows, so dont get to frustrated, they will come around in time.

Ok I'm trying very hard not to bite here. I'm thinking Cisco you don't know the MMA community do you!

 

[Marginal]

The polite and knowledgeable MMA community doesn't tend to make waves. (Since they're not jerky about their practices.) The loud obnoxious MMA fanboys that roam the web on the other hand...

 

[Tez3]

The polite and knowledgeable MMA community doesn't tend to make waves. (Since they're not jerky about their practices.) The loud obnoxious MMA fanboys that roam the web on the other hand...

.... are no more fans of MMA than they are MMA fighters. They are trolls masquerading as MMA fans purely to cause trouble because they can! I don't expect people to be so disrespectful about my martial art as to call us all uneducated especially on a thread with this title.

 

[Karatedrifter7]

Something too add to this, the haters are for sure online. Thats why I'm candid with most everthing I say. Case in point Yahoo used to have a "discuss" option on its news site. But there were so many crass, foul mouthed, posting haters, on it. That it would have made Howard Stern blush. So they discontinued it.

 

[ciscodog]

Well the starting post didnt mention exactly who has lost there mannners but in my expeirence its usually the young guys training in just MMA that talk the most crap. The older or veterans of MMA all started out in a traditional dojo more or less and always say they will beat a person, not a style as oppose to the other way around.

 

[MJS]

Well the starting post didnt mention exactly who has lost there mannners but in my expeirence its usually the young guys training in just MMA that talk the most crap. The older or veterans of MMA all started out in a traditional dojo more or less and always say they will beat a person, not a style as oppose to the other way around.

Well, thats correct, I didn't specify as I was intending to keep the field open. I've seen Kenpo guys bad mouth other Kenpoists, so I wouldn't say its not necessarily limited to MMA. However, I think Marginal and Tez made some good points.

 

[Tez3]

Well the starting post didnt mention exactly who has lost there mannners but in my expeirence its usually the young guys training in just MMA that talk the most crap. The older or veterans of MMA all started out in a traditional dojo more or less and always say they will beat a person, not a style as oppose to the other way around.

So you know for certain that behind the anonymous internet posting it's young MMAers that are spouting all this hate? and we always say? Well it's nice to lumped into a group for which you have so much knowledge and disdain. I would suggest you are generalizing and being somewhat offensive. I think I can claim to know far more young MMAers than you and I've not found them to be anymore rude than say... you are being now.

 

[exile]

There are nasty people in any art (and the TMAs are certainly not exempt; the heat that's been generated in the CMA and KMA fora, for example, with associated name-calling and whatnot, has been pretty intense at times, and people have been banned as a result, and the same is true in any number of other of our TMA sections). But my impression is that most people do their own thing and don't have either the inclination or energy to bash other people or arts.

It's very important to make sure that you don't confuse trolls using references to MMAs as a convenient weapon to go after other MAs with people who actually do MMAs. The first group of people will say anything to get the effect they're trying for, because their purposes are fundamentally destructive; they don't care how they succeed in disrupting a thread, and they'll use whatever means are at hand.

Look, for example, at the way posters who appear to have a trollish agenda have sometimes used RBSD as a stick to beat the TMAs with, mocking the use of kata and dojo gestures of courtesy and so on. The fact is, some of the biggest people in serious RBSD, people like Iain Abernethy, Peter Consterdine, Geoff Thompson and other prominent and very active members of the British Combat Association are quite high ranking TMAists (Peter Consterdine, e.g., is an eighth dan Shotokan karateka who has been an English International; at the same time, he's considered one of the leading close personal protection specialists in England and did a ten year stint as a club doorman and security manage in Manchester nightclubs... enough said! Similarly with Geoff Thompson and many of the others.) They are some of the leading `experimental' investigators of the combat content of the TMAs, and are also the leading edge of `alive', realistic training under maximally noncompliant conditions. So is there an inherent conflict between TMAs and RBSD? Not a chance, clearly; but you don't have to look far to find people raving on about how the only way to train for street survival is RBSD, that TMAs are just live-action role playing in strange pajamas, and all the other troll drivel we've gotten so tired of. A lot of the biggest MMA-will-clean-TMA's-clock yobs on the internet probably have little or no experience in the MMAs, just as you're likely to find the noisiest RBSD fanboys basing their shrill nonsense solely on what they've read about this kind of training.

People who are really serious about something tend to focus on their own problems in mastering the skills involved, I've noticed. A serious student of MMA is very unlikely to have the time, energy and incentive to form negative judgments about the TMAs—it's too much bloody hard work just getting their own act together, eh?

 

[meth18au]

Half of these internet warriors are just that...they've probably never thrown a punch in their life. Probably grew up wanting to be big and tough like Mr T. Well maybe not...that was probably before their time

 

[HelloKitty]

I think its clear where I'm going with this thread, so at this time, I'd like to hear from others. What are your views on people who have nothing better to do with their time, than put another art down?

Mike

You will always people pleased putting the rest down, and it seems easier doing it through internet because you can say things anonymously, taking zero responsability.

So, you can only ignore them. They are looking to make people mad, so if you answer, they win.

 

[matt.m]

I will not put others down, I have enough baggage to be an easy target. Plus putting others down is just not being a decent human being.

I don't always agree, but I try and look at things on both sides of the coin. What is moral and ethic to one is not moral and ethic to others.

Plus, lilke arguing life is to short to cut on others. If I do it, then it is too hurtful to my own conscience.

Just my .02

 

[Brian S]

While surfing various forums, I often come across many posts/threads by people who seem to thrive on putting others down. Look at any youtube clip and often, you can see comments that are left by people. Of course, many comments are good, but others also put the art in question down.

If an art doesn't spar, it must suck. If art A isn't like art B, it must suck. The list can go on and on. Many times someone will comment on an art and they have absolutely zero background in the art they're commenting on. How can someone judge something by a clip, something they read or something they hear from someone else? While you will be able to form an opinion, chances are that opinion will be distorted because you have no experience in the art. The old saying, "Don't judge a book by its cover", comes to mind here.

I think its clear where I'm going with this thread, so at this time, I'd like to hear from others. What are your views on people who have nothing better to do with their time, than put another art down?

Mike

Elitist, pure and simple. If you don't do things their way then you MUST be doing it wrong and there's no way you could ever defeat them.
People do martial arts for different reasons and at different levels. Some do it for competetion, some for fitness, self defense, and the list goes on. When we think our way is the only way we need to back up and rethink how were when we first started.

 

[grydth]

On the plus side, this forum attracts in the main a superb quality of individual and the moderation team does a nice balancing act between tolerance and discipline. I have learned an amazing amount here, and feel I have an infinite amount more to take in.

But while about 85% here are folks I'd enjoy meeting, I can't buy into a general notion of "brotherhood" as a whole. I feel zero kinship with those who espouse their art as the one true way - haven't I seen that before just in a different wrapper from sleazy tele-evangelists? I feel zero kinship with the cowardly and stupid anonymous neg reppers - the same type who key your car door rather than face you on the mat. I feel zero kinship with those who have to screech personal attacks to try and win debates.

Anonymous posts? You bet! Once upon a time, certain nut cases were the bane of one street corner, a local bar or the family attic. With the Internet they can reach the world.... and with map quest and some other search sites, they could find my family if I posted a name. I have seen this cyber stalking done on 2 other forums. All it takes is one nut, maybe a lurker nobody even hears from, taking offense - and they can be where my kids are.

MartialTalk by and large is the one of the best companies of folks around... and that's enough.