Protect and serve?

[Makalakumu]

This is loony Ron Paul style libertarianism Balen....it's impossible to impliment, impossible to manage and never really intended to be presented as a realistic solution as much as its used as a platform to rant about the current system and spout bizarre ideologies.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

It's actually easy to implement, because we do it in so many other areas of our life. It's as simple as purchasing any other service that is competing for your dollars.

Bottom line.

It's loony to think that government can solve complex social problems, especially when the evidence is so overwhelming showing that it can't.

 

[ballen0351]

Why would you forget to pay something so important?

People dont pay bills all the time. So whats the answer? What about people from out of town?

 

[ballen0351]

This is loony Ron Paul style libertarianism Balen....it's impossible to impliment, impossible to manage and never really intended to be presented as a realistic solution as much as its used as a platform to rant about the current system and spout bizarre ideologies.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

Thing that makes me laugh is who does he think private security calls when they are in trouble? 3 of our housing projects have private armed security and they are always calling us to come save them. Anyone that thinks this is a good idea has never been in the projects right after a shooting with victim and suspects family members fighting and screaming and going out of control.

 

[ballen0351]

It's actually easy to implement, because we do it in so many other areas of our life. It's as simple as purchasing any other service that is competing for your dollars.

Bottom line.

It's loony to think that government can solve complex social problems, especially when the evidence is so overwhelming showing that it can't.

except you keep refusing to answer what happens to victims that didnt pay.
You also have no answer to how a private police force will solve more crime then what we have now? Do you not think we try to solve crimes now? Do you not think that if this would happen the same guy in that patrol car tonight will be the same guy in that new private police car? So tell me what will be done different?

 

[Makalakumu]

Thing that makes me laugh is who does he think private security calls when they are in trouble? 3 of our housing projects have private armed security and they are always calling us to come save them. Anyone that thinks this is a good idea has never been in the projects right after a shooting with victim and suspects family members fighting and screaming and going out of control.

Everything that happens in the ghetto was created by government. The family was destroyed by government policy, the kids are mis-educated because of government policy. The safety of the community is being handled by government. It's no wonder this is one of the most disfunctional of our society. You can't point at problems that government caused and then cry about how you need more government to fix them! That makes you sound like a Democrat! Lol!

 

[ballen0351]

Everything that happens in the ghetto was created by government. The family was destroyed by government policy, the kids are mis-educated because of government policy. The safety of the community is being handled by government. It's no wonder this is one of the most disfunctional of our society. You can't point at problems that government caused and then cry about how you need more government to fix them! That makes you sound like a Democrat! Lol!

Oh so now your plan is to get rid of police, fix the family, end poverty and ghettos, fix our education, make people care about eachother, stop crime. Damn your a busy guy.

 

[ballen0351]

Im still waiting to hear what happens to victims that didnt or couldnt pay for private police

 

[Makalakumu]

except you keep refusing to answer what happens to victims that didnt pay.
You also have no answer to how a private police force will solve more crime then what we have now? Do you not think we try to solve crimes now? Do you not think that if this would happen the same guy in that patrol car tonight will be the same guy in that new private police car? So tell me what will be done different?

Statistics show that most people get away with crimes, so stop claiming that police are actually successful at this. You can't even compare what we have now to what the free market would create, because the government has screwed everything up so badly.

Off the top of my head, I think private security forces probably wouldn't enforce most of the "laws" that exist. They just aren't worth the return in investment for the people who would have to pay for them. Take drug use for example. It will cost way to much for a community to root this out because of the truly draconian measures it would take to handle something like this. And then there would be the insurance costs, if a private police force home invaded the wrong house with a SWAT type team, they would probably be used out of business by the property owner. So, these "crimes" simply won't exist. This will help the private security forces focus more on real violence and property protection. Combine the reduced time demands for enforcement of non-crimes with the latest technology and you actually start seeing reductions in these things. Who is going to steal a piece of property when it has a tracking device that allows property protection specialists to track it down no matter where it is?

As far as a person not being able to pay, you aren't asking the right questions. Why aren't they able to pay? I can think of a dozen answers for this and a dozen easy solutions that already present themselves somewhere in markets. For example, I could see a lot of businesses offering a portion of their services for charity. If some family was having financial struggles, they could work out a deal with the company for a reduced rate or no rate while they get back on their feet.

 

[Makalakumu]

Oh so now your plan is to get rid of police, fix the family, end poverty and ghettos, fix our education, make people care about eachother, stop crime. Damn your a busy guy.

Lol. Same answer for all of those. Stop having the government try to do it.

 

[Makalakumu]

Im still waiting to hear what happens to victims that didnt or couldnt pay for private police

Again, you aren't asking the right question. Why aren't the people able to pay?

 

[ballen0351]

Statistics show that most people get away with crimes, so stop claiming that police are actually successful at this. You can't even compare what we have now to what the free market would create, because the government has screwed everything up so badly.

So you have no answer to how they can do a better job solving crimes. Got it

Off the top of my head, I think private security forces probably wouldn't enforce most of the "laws" that exist. They just aren't worth the return in investment for the people who would have to pay for them. Take drug use for example. It will cost way to much for a community to root this out because of the truly draconian measures it would take to handle something like this. And then there would be the insurance costs, if a private police force home invaded the wrong house with a SWAT type team, they would probably be used out of business by the property owner. So, these "crimes" simply won't exist. This will help the private security forces focus more on real violence and property protection.

So we just toss the Constitution huh? Since the Constitution allows congress to pass laws we need to toss it so we only enforce laws you like? Screw what society wants. I had 2 calls so far tonight about people calling in complaints about the odor of Marijuana coming from neighboring apartments demanding we do something about it. But hey screw society right and all these silly rules.

Combine the reduced time demands for enforcement of non-crimes with the latest technology and you actually start seeing reductions in these things. Who is going to steal a piece of property when it has a tracking device that allows property protection specialists to track it down no matter where it is?

So you think people are going to willingly allow you to place tracking devices in everything they own? Yeah that will go over well. So what happnes if I cant afford a tracking device or dont want one?

As far as a person not being able to pay, you aren't asking the right questions. Why aren't they able to pay? I can think of a dozen answers for this and a dozen easy solutions that already present themselves somewhere in markets. For example, I could see a lot of businesses offering a portion of their services for charity. If some family was having financial struggles, they could work out a deal with the company for a reduced rate or no rate while they get back on their feet.

So you have no answer. So I get fired from my job and my wife gets raped. You think some private company is going to foot the bill of that investigation? DNA tests, medical tests, evidence collection, investigation, and Trial costs? yeah ok
What about people thay dont live in your town? People from europe here on vacation? what if they are a victim? We just say oh well so sorry?

 

[ballen0351]

Lol. Same answer for all of those. Stop having the government try to do it.

Govt isnt trying to fix anything. Some things just are what they are. Ghettos exist they are what they are. They existed long before Govts started funding them. We will always have poor and really poor. We will always have broken homes, abused kids, mentally ill, ect.

 

[Makalakumu]

So you have no answer to how they can do a better job solving crimes. Got it

So we just toss the Constitution huh? Since the Constitution allows congress to pass laws we need to toss it so we only enforce laws you like? Screw what society wants. I had 2 calls so far tonight about people calling in complaints about the odor of Marijuana coming from neighboring apartments demanding we do something about it. But hey screw society right and all these silly rules.

So you think people are going to willingly allow you to place tracking devices in everything they own? Yeah that will go over well. So what happnes if I cant afford a tracking device or dont want one?

So you have no answer. So I get fired from my job and my wife gets raped. You think some private company is going to foot the bill of that investigation? DNA tests, medical tests, evidence collection, investigation, and Trial costs? yeah ok
What about people thay dont live in your town? People from europe here on vacation? what if they are a victim? We just say oh well so sorry?

I've given you a couple of answers on how it could be done and have provided context. I've even clarified your vague questions.

Here I'll run down your points again.

1. Toss the Constitution? The government did that already. No need to wait for private business to do it. What I am saying is that private business would actually be more responsible for your rights if that is what you wanted as a consumer.

2. In a free society where people have to directly pay for the things they want and government isn't a solution to everyone's problem, marijuana is simply not going to register on people's radar screens. So what if you don't like it. Mind your own business if you aren't being aggressed against.

3. Yes, people would glad put tracking devices in items that are worth it. I love the app that allows me to find the iPad after my kids lose it. This simple thing could be used by a private security company to solve crimes at a far greater rate than they are solved by police now. If you don't like that, hire a different company that doesn't do that. It's that simple.

4. You would pay insurance against violent crimes in a free society. The insurance company would hire a private investigator to do whatever tests they needed to do. The private investigator would have financial incentive to actually solve this crime, because his reputation is on the line. Depending how medical information is shared, they might even be able to search a voluntary database for the perp. People would enter their DNA for a cheaper rate on violence insurance. Who knows how many creative ways this problem could be solved, the point is that all of them would be better than what we have now.

5. Same thing would apply if you travel. You'd by travelers insurance and this insurance would be adjusted to the current crime rates for the place you are going.

Dude, the market wins every time. Compare any service that the government provides to what is provided by the market, the government always sucks.

 

[Makalakumu]

Govt isnt trying to fix anything. Some things just are what they are. Ghettos exist they are what they are. They existed long before Govts started funding them. We will always have poor and really poor. We will always have broken homes, abused kids, mentally ill, ect.

Really? The government doesn't try to fix anything? Ever hear about The War on Drugs? The War on Poverty? The War on Terror? No Child Left Behind?

All of those have contributed to actually make those problems worse. Without the government, those problems actually start to get better. People lose the entitlement mentality and suddenly must take responsibility for themselves. This is the idea that supposedly founded this country...if you believe the hype.

 

[ballen0351]

Funny thing is your arguing against yourself. Your cry that the police are pawns of big business. Your Solution? Cut out the middle man and allow Big Govt to be the police
Yeah you thought that one out huh

 

[ballen0351]

I've given you a couple of answers on how it could be done and have provided context. I've even clarified your vague questions.

Here I'll run down your points again.

1. Toss the Constitution? The government did that already. No need to wait for private business to do it. What I am saying is that private business would actually be more responsible for your rights if that is what you wanted as a consumer.

And your wrong. Private Business is only worried about making money not protecting rights.

2. In a free society where people have to directly pay for the things they want and government isn't a solution to everyone's problem, marijuana is simply not going to register on people's radar screens. So what if you don't like it. Mind your own business if you aren't being aggressed against.

Wrong again Private police will try even harder to enforce drug laws because its free money. Drug units are normally fully self funded with seized assets. 2nd if You can smell it in your apartment then you are being aggressed against. That call I had this evening that entire upper floor reeked of Marijuana. Id be pissed too If I lived there.

3. Yes, people would glad put tracking devices in items that are worth it. I love the app that allows me to find the iPad after my kids lose it. This simple thing could be used by a private security company to solve crimes at a far greater rate than they are solved by police now. If you don't like that, hire a different company that doesn't do that. It's that simple.

Wow so now when you need police you need to figure out which company to call and which company responds? So I work for a private police force and I walk up on some dude getting his butt kicked. I then need to stop the fight find out if the victim was a client of mine or another service. If hes not our client do I then tell the guy oh well sorry about your luck heres my card you should switch. OK MR attacker carry on hes not our client. Great system.
As to tracking devices good luck with that as soon as the NSA taps into them and starts tracking everyone people will freak out.

4. You would pay insurance against violent crimes in a free society. The insurance company would hire a private investigator to do whatever tests they needed to do. The private investigator would have financial incentive to actually solve this crime, because his reputation is on the line. Depending how medical information is shared, they might even be able to search a voluntary database for the perp. People would enter their DNA for a cheaper rate on violence insurance. Who knows how many creative ways this problem could be solved, the point is that all of them would be better than what we have now.

Dude what rapist would enter his DNA into a Data base? And now I need to buy victim insurance, and pay for police protection? And again if Im poor and cant afford it? Then what? You still have not answered that other then well maybe someone will do it for free

5. Same thing would apply if you travel. You'd by travelers insurance and this insurance would be adjusted to the current crime rates for the place you are going.

So now I need, victim insurance, pay for police protection , and travel insurance? And this is supposed to cost us less?

Dude, the market wins every time. Compare any service that the government provides to what is provided by the market, the government always sucks.

Tell that to the Marine Corps

 

[Makalakumu]

Funny thing is your arguing against yourself. Your cry that the police are pawns of big business. Your Solution? Cut out the middle man and allow Big Govt to be the police
Yeah you thought that one out huh

I think you meant big business? Not big government. Either way, that's what exists now. Government Cops are the unwitting pawns of whoever holds the reins of power. There are so many laws that only exist because some big fat cat was trying to protect his interest against some competitor.

In a free market, corporations could not use government to make monopolies. They would not be able to fend of competitors and would have to remain smaller and nimbler to survive. There would be no goon squads like we have now, because the money and power to support them wouldn't exist.

Instead, what we'd have are local private security forces who specialize in fighting crimes that really matter. We'd have a population that could buy any arm they wanted and would be willing to train so they could pitch in if there ever was a real emergency. We'd have contracts and competition to protect our civil rights. And we'd have insurance that we could purchase to ward off against risk.

This insistence that some people have regarding the government and police is really loony if you consider it objectively.

 

[Makalakumu]

Tell that to the Marine Corps

It's getting late, so I'll play more in the morning. Regarding the Marines though, lol. The government is good at defense right?

19 People, mostly Saudis allegedly attacked us on 9/11 and this country invades every country but Saudi Arabia. Wow, did the government miss that target! Lol!

They are so good at defense!

 

[ballen0351]

I think you meant big business? Not big government.

Correct thats what I was saying You complain about Big Business owning the police force so your solution is it let them own the police force.

Either way, that's what exists now. Government Cops are the unwitting pawns of whoever holds the reins of power. There are so many laws that only exist because some big fat cat was trying to protect his interest against some competitor.

Really Im not sure Ive ever enforced copyright laws. I have enforced Murders, Robbery, Rape, laws. Who knew Murder was a Corp. plot

In a free market, corporations could not use government to make monopolies. They would not be able to fend of competitors and would have to remain smaller and nimbler to survive. There would be no goon squads like we have now, because the money and power to support them wouldn't exist.

Hmmm where are these goon squads I hear about?

Instead, what we'd have are local private security forces who specialize in fighting crimes that really matter. We'd have a population that could buy any arm they wanted and would be willing to train so they could pitch in if there ever was a real emergency. We'd have contracts and competition to protect our civil rights. And we'd have insurance that we could purchase to ward off against risk.

So now in an emergency I need to figure out what company I need to call, Hope Im up to date on my bill, Wait for the operator to verifiy my coverage, then send private help. Yet THATS suppose to be faster and better then what we have now?

This insistence that some people have regarding the government and police is really loony if you consider it objectively.

And your argument against Big Business controlling police by allowing Big Business to control police is really loony.

 

[ballen0351]

It's getting late, so I'll play more in the morning. Regarding the Marines though, lol. The government is good at defense right?

19 People, mostly Saudis allegedly attacked us on 9/11 and this country invades every country but Saudi Arabia. Wow, did the government miss that target! Lol!

They are so good at defense!

So a Private Military would have done it differently? Marine Corps didnt draft the policy they just go where they are told.