Protect and serve?

[Tgace]

Rant on:

After perusing a FB post full of "cop haters" (dunno why I bother) I was struck by all the comments about how cops are "worse these days" or how they don't "protect and serve" anymore....

IMO, most of these "good old days" of law enforcement types are wearing coke bottle bottom rose colored glasses. Seriously? Back in the "good old days" you would have been sapped into unconsciousness for simply mouthing off to a cop. People who believe the police of decades ago were better are either basing their opinions on popular media or were simply not around back then. In general we have never had as well trained a police force as we have now. What we do have is a cell phone video driven hype-fest that spreads a lot regional and individual **** ups over a profession that is a unique by department as people are unique unto themselves.

And the whole "protect and serve" meme when used against the cops is just that...a meme spouted by people with little understanding of police history. "Protect and Serve" was a motto devised by the LAPD in the 50's, it was never intended to be used as the definition for police in society.

While I would like to protect everyone and everything from harm that's simply not possible and while I do provide a public "service" I'm no individual persons "servant".

When it comes down to definitions, criminology texts state that the Police are around for (1) preventing crime, (2) investigating crimes and apprehending criminals, (3) maintaining order, and (4) providing other miscellaneous services. Which cover things like making your kids go to school because you don't know how to, getting Raccoon's out of attics and taking vehicle collision reports.

:rant off.

So. What do you think the role of police in (American) society is supposed to be? I'm not asking for pie in the sky "if I had my way" responses. Id like to know what definition you would write....if it differs from the one I posted above.

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[arnisador]

Professionalism and respect for the letter of the law has definitely increased--and it's taken a lot of hard work on behalf of depts. Don't take crap like that!

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I have mentioned this before as well. We as a society have never had as professional of a police force as we have now. They have never been as well trained, educated, equipped, etc. They are in general even managed better by their upper level management. Sure there are people within the profession that should not be there or they do the wrong thing. However, this really happens in every profession. What law enforcement does do very well is that when some thing does happen that is inappropriate or against the law by an LEO then they use it as a teaching tool for other LEO's in the profession.

As tgace mentioned we are now in the video age where everyone has a video camcorder on them. Where I currently live LEO's will soon be equipped with a personal mounted video device that monitors situations. The profession will be able to learn a lot from this.

This is one of the toughest professions to work in. Make no mistake about it! Dealing with the 1%ers and the other 5%ers that make up our criminal population is simply a pain in the ***. People need to understand that without the police there would be not much of a society. Appreciate what you got because without it you would not like this world!

 

[ballen0351]

Yeah I get sucked into reading the cop bashing posts on FB and comment sections I tell myself dont read them but I cant help it.

 

[DennisBreene]

Yeah I get sucked into reading the cop bashing posts on FB and comment sections I tell myself dont read them but I cant help it.

Please keep in mind that most of the bashing probably comes from the same 1 - 5 % of the population already noted in a previous post. I'm sure it is not noted enough that the majority of citizens respect and appreciate the work of our police. Thank you for what you do and the professionalism evident in modern police work.

 

[Makalakumu]

When it comes down to definitions, criminology texts state that the Police are around for (1) preventing crime, (2) investigating crimes and apprehending criminals, (3) maintaining order, and (4) providing other miscellaneous services. Which cover things like making your kids go to school because you don't know how to, getting Raccoon's out of attics and taking vehicle collision reports. 2

Based on my research, the long response times pretty much make it impossible for the cops to prevent crime. The cops aren't actually responsible if crime does occur, according to a 1975 Supreme Court Case. Nationwide, violent crimes have a 40 % clearance rate. Property crimes have 10% clearance rate. It's so bad on Oahu, that we have private companies who will search Craigslist and Facebook for postings of items that have been stolen so you can buy them back. Forget having the cops go and arrest the SOBs. They won't even bother. They will bother with giving tickets to innocent people standing on the beach, watching the moonrise. They will bother for all kinds of non violent and peaceful activities like growing the wrong plants without permits or forcing children to attend substandard government indoctrination centers...I mean schools...that the children hate.

If I was given a choice as to whether or not I would pay a security company for this kind of service, what choice should I make?

To"serve and protect" as a motto is a joke as far as the taxpayer is concerned. However, it does apply to those who hold power. Cops pretty much always show up to pepper spray, Billy club, and/or bully people who dissent with the policies of the oligarchy. In fact, I think "to serve and protect power" is the real motto of LEOs. As was mentioned above, there was no Golden Age for cops. They've always been the uniformed goons for the powerful. Pushback from the public has caused them to adjust their behavior over time.

The ultimate pushback from the public is when the public finally get sick of being extorted for this "service", stop paying, and hire their own more efficient private security forces.

 

[Tgace]

Lets see..off the top of my head I can remember:

-Stopping a man from slashing his throat.
-Catching 3 armed robbers after lengthly car chase.
-Catching several people over the years breaking into vehicles while the owners slept and returned their property to them.
-Stopping a man with a gun who was on the way to kill his daughter in law. Used on star to find his truck...that was interesting.
-Holding a mans head up in a wrecked car to assist his breathing as he was dying while waiting for EMS to respond to cut him out.

Not to mention the numerous calls for suicides and dead bodies...the people I've arrested for abusing their domestic partners/family members. Stolen cars recovered, foot chases, car chases of armed bank robbers...jumping into a storm drain to rescue ducklings, returning escaped dogs. HELL, Ive forgotten more things than I can remember at this point.

If that doesn't count as some form of service to my community than I don't know what the definition is.

Most peoples "research" about what we do is a steaming pile of personal opinionated ****.



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[ballen0351]

*
The ultimate pushback from the public is when the public finally get sick of being extorted for this "service", stop paying, and hire their own more efficient private security forces.

Oh boy I can't wait for that to happen. Ill be first in line. I bet they pay better have better working conditions and better benefits. I bet private sector won't make me work 12 hour midnight shift have 9 am and 1 pm court and come back in for another 12 hour midnight shift. Hey can you make this happen faster.

 

[Makalakumu]

I'm a wilderness first responder, a life guard, and CPR/first aid certified.

I've saved seven lives in the water? I've administered life saving first aid twice in non aquatic situations. I've performed three extractions from wilderness areas for life threatening situations.

Here are a dozen lives saved for free and I was never "on duty" it was just a matter of being in the right place at the right time with the right training.

All for free.

All communities need is people with the right kind of training, a community minded spirit, and a legal system that actually protects people for helping others, we suddenly lose the need to have the majority of the police hired in the US.

High crime areas will need special businesses that compete based off of their results in actually affecting crime rates. I suspect that these businesses will look very different than modern government policing.

I think that serving and protecting is a rational and logical civic duty and we truly shouldn't need to pay people for this unless there is a major problem. The reason why the government takes our money to pay for modern LEOs is to enforce non-violent and peaceful "crimes" in order to meet budget demands and to serve the needs of power.

Cops obey orders and are replaced by those who obey orders.

 

[Makalakumu]

Oh boy I can't wait for that to happen. Ill be first in line. I bet they pay better have better working conditions and better benefits. I bet private sector won't make me work 12 hour midnight shift have 9 am and 1 pm court and come back in for another 12 hour midnight shift. Hey can you make this happen faster.

Yeah, imagine if you didn't have to violate people's property rights and enforce laws on non-violent/peaceful "crimes" all day? In a free market, no one would pay for that? In a free market system, you probably wouldn't get paid at all. Helping keep people safe would just be an expectation. You'd have to do something productive instead.

 

[ballen0351]

I'm a wilderness first responder, a life guard, and CPR/first aid certified.

I've saved seven lives in the water? I've administered life saving first aid twice in non aquatic situations. I've performed three extractions from wilderness areas for life threatening situations.

Here are a dozen lives saved for free and I was never "on duty" it was just a matter of being in the right place at the right time with the right training.

All for free.

good for you what kinda cookie do you want my treat

All communities need is people with the right kind of training, a community minded spirit, and a legal system that actually protects people for helping others, we suddenly lose the need to have the majority of the police hired in the US.

High crime areas will need special businesses that compete based off of their results in actually affecting crime rates. I suspect that these businesses will look very different than modern government policing.

high crime areas are also mostly poor so whos going to pay for this business? the poor? the criminals? the govt?
look at the outrage when that fire department let that house burn because the home owner never paid for fire service. whats going to happen when someone didnt pay their police bill and they are the victim of a crime? Whos going to pay for rape kits and DNA testing for rapes the victim?

I think that serving and protecting is a rational and logical civic duty and we truly shouldn't need to pay people for this unless there is a major problem.

dude have you been out in the real world lately? My partner killed a guy few weeks ago as he was stabbing his babys mother to death. She tried to get into 3 houses for safety and nobody would help her or even open the door. We got there within 3 1/2 mins and shot the guy 6 times he was still able to stab her 3 times after being shot before he died. People dont help people anymore.

The reason why the government takes our money to pay for modern LEOs is to enforce non-violent and peaceful "crimes" in order to meet budget demands and to serve the needs of power.

Really? It couldnt possibly be that these laws are laws that society asked for and wanted put in place to make society a better place.

Cops obey orders and are replaced by those who obey orders.

Ill tell you same thing I tell everyone that says they are going to have my job. I was looking for a job when I found this one. I can look for a job until I find my next one.

 

[ballen0351]

Yeah, imagine if you didn't have to violate people's property rights and enforce laws on non-violent/peaceful "crimes" all day? In a free market, no one would pay for that? In a free market system, you probably wouldn't get paid at all. Helping keep people safe would just be an expectation.

So we get rid of cops and crime goes away and everyone will behave?

You'd have to do something productive instead.

Yeah Someday I hope to be productive member of society lol

 

[Tgace]

His lack of understanding and knowledge of what it takes to bring a case to court....let alone all the various LE specialist roles like detectives, pilots, evidence processors...only add to the bull **** smell.

Nevermind issues like vehicles, weapons, ongoing training. Firemen and part time lifeguards can be volunteers because fires and drowning people don't call them for help hundreds of times in a day.

He doesn't know jack **** about what hes talking about.

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[Tgace]

Really? It couldnt possibly be that these laws are laws that society asked for and wanted put in place to make society a better place.

The elephant in the room people like him never confront.

Do you think I find most drug dealers on my own?

Ill forward Maku my phone messages for the week and let him talk to all the people complaining about the drug use on their streets.

Are they not due my best effort to address their complaints?

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[arnisador]

Private security is just a matter of whose mafia is bigger, badder, and more brutal in this context.

Really? It couldnt possibly be that these laws are laws that society asked for and wanted put in place to make society a better place.

But criminals don't obey laws, so it's pointless--or so I have frequently been told here.

 

[ballen0351]

But criminals don't obey laws, so it's pointless--or so I have frequently been told here.

Which is why we enforce the laws. Because criminals dont obey them

 

[Tgace]

Private security is just a matter of whose mafia is bigger, badder, and more brutal in this context.

For all the "cops trample rights" hype, what we would have if the "citizen volunteer" got to patrol the streets would blow your mind.

The stories I could tell about what people want me to do to stop the drug dealer across the street or what they think I should do without a warrant would blow your mind...when it comes to THEIR problems the Constitution means nothing. That's why lynch mobs used to form.

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[ballen0351]

For all the "cops trample rights" hype, what we would have if the "citizen volunteer" got to patrol the streets would blow your mind.

The stories I could tell about what people want me to do to stop the drug dealer across the street or what they think I should do without a warrant would blow your mind...when it comes to THEIR problems the Constitution means nothing. That's why lynch mobs used to form.

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Aint that the truth...."officer my neighbor stole my ________ go get it" Ok Ma'am did you see them? "No I just know it was them go look in there house" Well I cant do that. "what do you mean you cant they stole my property go get it back. "ma'am do you have proof they stole it? "no just go look in his bedroom I bet its there" Ma'am I cant go in their house like that. "Do your F$%$^% Job and go get my property" Ma'Am I cant just walk in his house. Ill go talk to them.
Ok ma'am I asked for permission to go in his hous he said no. "This is BS you lazy POS cop do your damn job and get me back my property"

Yep been there a few times.

 

[ballen0351]

And dont get me started on how many bouncers have assaulted and violated peoples rights.

 

[Tgace]

Aint that the truth...."officer my neighbor stole my ________ go get it" Ok Ma'am did you see them? "No I just know it was them go look in there house" Well I cant do that. "what do you mean you cant they stole my property go get it back. "ma'am do you have proof they stole it? "no just go look in his bedroom I bet its there" Ma'am I cant go in their house like that. "Do your F$%$^% Job and go get my property" Ma'Am I cant just walk in his house. Ill go talk to them.
Ok ma'am I asked for permission to go in his hous he said no. "This is BS you lazy POS cop do your damn job and get me back my property"

Yep been there a few times.

Amen...people may not believe it, may not want to believe it, and YES some of our brethren do us no favors sometimes....but we actually guard peoples rights from situations like this more than people realize.

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