promotion to BB

[Rabu]

A black belt, in most cases, simply indicates that you paid alot of money to someone.

When I was practicing Kempo, I knew and taught 53 empty hand forms. I was never promoted to black belt. I was asked to open or run schools for people on a number of occasions, but, since I had only praticed for ten years at that point, I was not 'promotable' until I had run the school for them without taking any pay and giving them all the money for a while.

Apparently I had to 'season' before I could be considered for promotion or recognition. Not sure what season could mean.



Not bitter at all.

Suffice it to say, I chose to practice elsewhere and with another art. Best of luck to the hopefuls out there.

Rob

 

[Matt]

I've heard that story too. My "$0.02 cents" is that it is a stupid comment to make. I say this because isn't the black belt just an end to justify the means? People come to learn martial arts to better themselves and through the process of learning the art not only do they earn a black belt in the system but in life as well. As instructors we a charged with leading these people down the path of success. When they fail ,we fail.

As a Math/Science (and sometimes Physical Education) teacher who believes heartily in differentiation in curriculum, I think you are missing the point. Just because the person doesn't get a certain piece of cloth doesn't mean that they aren't improving. Average people don't get doctorates in astrophysics either. It's probably a good thing.

Not having a Ph.D. doesn't make you a bad person, it just doesn't make you Dr. So-and-so. It's okay. The black belt is a benchmark, not necessarily a minimum standard.

 

[kenpo3631]

As a Math/Science (and sometimes Physical Education) teacher who believes heartily in differentiation in curriculum, I think you are missing the point. Just because the person doesn't get a certain piece of cloth doesn't mean that they aren't improving. Average people don't get doctorates in astrophysics either. It's probably a good thing.

Not having a Ph.D. doesn't make you a bad person, it just doesn't make you Dr. So-and-so. It's okay. The black belt is a benchmark, not necessarily a minimum standard.

The "when they fail, we fail" statement was in not in regard to constant never-ending improvement, but in actually passing their black belt exam. If they can't do it because they cannot perform the required material or are not able to explain the principles they are using then indeed the instructor has failed that student, IMO

I understand that different students have different needs and that students retain the material in different ways. However there is a fairly standard testing procedure in place at most martial arts schools/studios with outlined requirements to achieve certain belt standards. Each student should be familiar with them and what it takes to earn a belt in that particular school/studio.

Interesting point you've spawned Matt. It lends itself to the questions:

How many studio/school owners make an outline for every class they teach? How many provide a syllubus for their students? How many outline what they will be doing for the complete year so is to know when promotions will be conducted giving the students a timeline?

Remember we are "martial arts professionals" We are not just "teaching Karate", it's more than that. We owe it to ourselves as well as our students that they are prepared to meet the goals they set for themselves as well as the ones we set for them.

 

[JTKenpo]

Interesting point you've spawned Matt. It lends itself to the questions:

How many studio/school owners make an outline for every class they teach? How many provide a syllubus for their students? How many outline what they will be doing for the complete year so is to know when promotions will be conducted giving the students a timeline?

Remember we are "martial arts professionals" We are not just "teaching Karate", it's more than that. We owe it to ourselves as well as our students that they are prepared to meet the goals they set for themselves as well as the ones we set for them.

At one point I outlined every class I taught for the upcoming week, unfortunately that just got too time consuming, so before each class I outline it with my instructors then after everyone has warmed up and stretched out I outline the days plan to the class so everyone knows what to expect.

Syllabus' in any parker school should be a non issue. There are several journals available for every rank in the system. Unfortunately that is not so in other Kempo styles. When I was coming up through the ranks we were given a sheet telling us what was required in that rank, again unfortunately there were no sheets given out after purple belt. So one of my missions for my current rank was to document the system I teach. It took about a year but I created journals, not just one sheet, for every rank including black belt. I'm currently working on 2nd degree but have shelved it for awhile. I also have 3' boards with all the techniques and forms required for ranks white through 2nd brown (no 1st brown as I use it as a review and training for black belt) displayed on the wall in the dojo. It not only lets you know what is ahead but aids in reviewing techniques.

As far as promotions go I test on a when ready basis. When there are enough people to warrant a test I bring them all together at a given time for the test. I don't set people up to fail by putting them on a test they are not ready for, but they still have to perform up to par.

I agree whole heartedly that being a martial arts professional is different then just teaching karate. I just wish we would be paid what we are worth as professionals. I know of no other profession that takes so long to get an understanding of and become proficient and yet is paid so small a sum. Would anyone else go to school for 10 years to make what we make?

Sorry, don't answer that it will just derail the thread. I'll get down off my soapbox now and go back in the corner.

 

[kenpo3631]

I know of no other profession that takes so long to get an understanding of and become proficient and yet is paid so small a sum.

I do...Paramedics

Hehe and I'm both:headbangin:

 

[kenpo3631]

As far as promotions go I test on a when ready basis. When there are enough people to warrant a test I bring them all together at a given time for the test. I don't set people up to fail by putting them on a test they are not ready for, but they still have to perform up to par.

I used to do it like that when I began my school in the early 90's. It was the way I came up through the ranks.

I modeled my school after the academic method. I created a syllubus and let the students know when each scheduled belt test was (got that idea from John Graden). I then changed the way I evaluated my students by administering "step tests" every 5 weeks. After successfully completing all three step tests the were ready for promotion. If they were not, we added an extra cycle and the got 4 step exams instead of three. They'd just be promoted after the others in their class (sometimes prodding them to do better on their step exams).

So it really isn't setting students up for failure by scheduling tests throughout the year, it just let's them know when it's coming. Nothing says you have to pass them though. Same stringent guidelines, just done periodically. It also cuts down on the amount of material they are performing each time they test. So basically they are tested on sections of the curriculum they are studying. I found it's easier for the student to digest then having them run it all. It's more cost effective too from a time stand point.

Anyway...:asian:

 

[JTKenpo]

So it really isn't setting students up for failure by scheduling tests throughout the year, it just let's them know when it's coming. Nothing says you have to pass them though. Same stringent guidelines, just done periodically. It also cuts down on the amount of material they are performing each time they test. So basically they are tested on sections of the curriculum they are studying. I found it's easier for the student to digest then having them run it all. It's more cost effective too from a time stand point.

Anyway...:asian:

I wasn't implying that set test dates through out the year are setting students up to fail, I was stating that putting them on a test they were not ready for was setting them up to fail. No accusation, just a statement.

 

[JTKenpo]

I do...Paramedics

Hehe and I'm both:headbangin:

Yeah........we put in more time then doctors but you can make more asking if you would like fries with that, yeah.....

 

[kenpo3631]

I wasn't implying that set test dates through out the year are setting students up to fail, I was stating that putting them on a test they were not ready for was setting them up to fail. No accusation, just a statement.

No accusations assumed

I was stating that putting them on a test they were not ready for was setting them up to fail.

Well like I said, nothing says you have to pass them through. Besides, if they did fail it would be a great time to reflect upon them the value of indomitable spirit as well as the reasons why it is important to practice at home. My students were also able to do a retest the following week. Now I coupled that with an extra help private lesson or two to get them up to snuff.

 

[KempoShaun]

I've reverted to teaching the pinans/heians the "traditional" way, shotokan/wado type versions, simply because, when taught that way, they train you for the "master" form of Kushanku (a kata I believe should be mandatory for all systems, but that's another story entirely), Kushanku/kanku-dai is actually a fairly long form, 72 - 80 moves depending on your lineage, and was actually taught before the pinan/heian series, but to make it more palatable, it was broken down into 5 "smaller" forms to better grasp the bunkai and subtleties of each forms teachings. I believe if more people learned Kushanku, they would have a much better understanding and appreciation for the pinan katas. This, of course, meant I had to deviate from the SKK lineage more back towards the Japanese traditional lineage in which the pinans are rather different, for instance 1 pinan and 2 pinan are not the 1 and 2 pinan taught in the SKK lineage, though 3, 4 and 5 are quite similar. I'm actually writing an article on Kushanku for a new Martial Arts Magazine I'm general manager of that starts getting distributed (for free!) in January, if anyone is interested in the article, or the newsletter, just let me know and I can give you a link. That being said, if you feel he has learned all he should before black belt, what you would have any other students learn, then I see no problem with the promotion, congrats!!!

 

[still learning]

Hello, Better to be "damm good" in one form...than know 20!

Most fighters will tell you they have perfective less than five techniques or moves to be successful....the rest?

The dictionary is BIG.....yet the one letter "F" is powerful...so is "sorry"

Do you need to teach everything? .....todays students..has many other things in there lives...families, work, hobbies, and etc...

It takes about 2000 repetitons...to build memory without thinking...natural reflexes.....or one time in a close call!

Knowing a thousand moves.....is knowledge.....BUT can you react according? a thousand different times?

Best to run away? .....how many times do we have to be told this?

Football can have two dozen plays or more? ....yet there is a few that works better most times! Each play much be flexible...like all martial art techniques..

Aloha, Form you own opinions ( limited to 2)

 

[RevIV]

I have 5 set under black belt tests a year. all planned out in the first week of Jan. I post a sign 1 month before the test to tell the students when it is. I have to do this because I also must do 5 tests at my other locations- plus 2 tournaments and black belt testing.. lets not forget seminars and the fact that my family needs me every once in awhile too. Very few people have ever tested 5 times in a year.. Maybe someone who has transferred over from another style or so. the usual student does 3 or 4 if they are really working hard. I have had green belts stay green for an entire year and others who learned and performed everything they needed and tested in 3 months. Also- they must demonstrate from white belt to current rank at each test and do it properly.

 

[JTKenpo]

Hello, Better to be "damm good" in one form...than know 20!

Most fighters will tell you they have perfective less than five techniques or moves to be successful....the rest?

The dictionary is BIG.....yet the one letter "F" is powerful...so is "sorry"

Do you need to teach everything? .....todays students..has many other things in there lives...families, work, hobbies, and etc...

It takes about 2000 repetitons...to build memory without thinking...natural reflexes.....or one time in a close call!

Knowing a thousand moves.....is knowledge.....BUT can you react according? a thousand different times?

Best to run away? .....how many times do we have to be told this?

Football can have two dozen plays or more? ....yet there is a few that works better most times! Each play much be flexible...like all martial art techniques..

Aloha, Form you own opinions ( limited to 2)

I get two opinions, thats a hell of a lot more then my wife gives me!!

Ok but seriously I absolutely agree with your post. The one thing it does not take into consideration though about those hundred different techniques is that they are only a handful of ideas and basics rearranged into a different technique. When you hear about master key movements all that is is the underlying core principles of any given system. You might hear ak people talk about their system being based off of 5 swords and the same can be said for skk and combo #3. Now before you go off slamming me about that statement take a good hard look at your material and find those techniques rearranged in a dozen other techniques. Thats all I'm saying, and yes there are other techs that do the same but my point is that it isn't a hundred different ideas just a couple ideas arranged in different manners. And yes I understand this is over simplifying things but it gets the point across. I think?

 

[kenpo3631]

I get two opinions, thats a hell of a lot more then my wife gives me!!

Ok but seriously I absolutely agree with your post. The one thing it does not take into consideration though about those hundred different techniques is that they are only a handful of ideas and basics rearranged into a different technique. When you hear about master key movements all that is is the underlying core principles of any given system. You might hear ak people talk about their system being based off of 5 swords and the same can be said for skk and combo #3. Now before you go off slamming me about that statement take a good hard look at your material and find those techniques rearranged in a dozen other techniques. Thats all I'm saying, and yes there are other techs that do the same but my point is that it isn't a hundred different ideas just a couple ideas arranged in different manners. And yes I understand this is over simplifying things but it gets the point across. I think?

Many truths lie in sophisticated simplicity
~Ed Parker
the Zen of Kenpo

 

[Kenpo17]

My thoughts on this is wow, lots to learn! However if someone, like your son is willing to put a great effort toward his Kenpo training, sure he should be able to achieve this. You don't know how many people I talk to, mainly 12,13,14, and 15 year olds that tell me they only take Kenpo, or any kind of Martial Arts because their parents make them. They wouldn't take Kenpo otherwise. It makes me ill to hear this because learning any Martial Arts should be something you want to learn for yourself, not because someone is making you take it. Anyway, when I tested for my 1st Dan. I needed to know forms (Katas) 1-4, including short forms 1,2,and 3. Then I needed to know around 60 techniques, and at the test, we spar, we point spar. So, what I am trying to sum up here is that I think it is great your son is so into Kenpo on his own, and tell him to keep going with it, even after he recieves his Black Belt because there is so much more in the art to learn.