Professor Title

[Tony Dismukes]

As I mentioned, I don't use the title "professor" because the connotations in English make it seem pretentious to me. That said, I figure those who do use the title are just going along with traditional usage from BJJ's country of origin, so I don't judge.

Similarly, I also find the titles "master" and "grandmaster" to be pretentious. However, I recognize that in many Korean arts those titles are official ranks set by those in charge of the art and so I try not to judge KMA instructors who go along with the convention.

 

[Dirty Dog]

As I mentioned, I don't use the title "professor" because the connotations in English make it seem pretentious to me. That said, I figure those who do use the title are just going along with traditional usage from BJJ's country of origin, so I don't judge.

Similarly, I also find the titles "master" and "grandmaster" to be pretentious. However, I recognize that in many Korean arts those titles are official ranks set by those in charge of the art and so I try not to judge KMA instructors who go along with the convention.

The only person I expect to call me "Master" is my wife. And not just at the dojang.

I'm not saying she actually DOES, mind you. Just that I tell her she should.


Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Really.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

The only person I expect to call me "Master" is my wife. And not just at the dojang.

I'm not saying she actually DOES, mind you. Just that I tell her she should.


Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Really.

Yeah, based on reading your posts over time I didn't think you were one to use those titles.

Side question - in your experience, what percentage of TKD instructors who are entitled to use the "master" or "grandmaster" titles according to the organization to which they belong actually do use said title?

 

[Steve]

At the end of the day what it really comes down to is using non-English terms in a English speaking environment leads to confusion. "Professor", in Portuguese and in Brazil may make perfect sense. But in a English speaking environment the term has a meaning that is not really meant when used in Brazil. A martial arts instructor is not a "professor", not in the way we use the term.

Couple of things here. On the one hand, I wonder who's confused. I don't think anyone here would be confused. I've never met a person in real life who was at all confused by the use of the term, in context. It's just not confusing.

Second, if using non-english terms in an english speaking environment does lead to confusion, martial artists are in serious trouble. Just about every martial art style uses native vernacular in the instruction. If anything, BJJ is among the styles that do this the least. Judo, TKD, Karate, Kung Fu, all use a non-english vernacular almost exclusively. So, if this is confusing (which I really don't believe to be the case), we would see this more in other styles than in BJJ.

Something about martial arts leads people to bring in terms that don't really make sense, or are simply misused in relation to their native meaning. It's not just BJJ and "Professor". "Sensei" in Japan isn't used the way most western martial arts schools like to use it. Then there is all the "Soke's" around...

The incredible irony here is that in BJJ, they use the term "professor" exactly how it is used in Portueguese, and there is literally no misuse at all. My personal belief is that the rampant misuse by most other styles makes it hard for you guys to imagine that there is just not the weight placed on the term you presume must be there.

I vote we just be coaches and / or instructors. Those terms make sense in our language and culture.

LOL. Your vote is noted.

Once again, guys. I think you're lumping a lot of your own personal baggage from your own styles here. While the brazilians I've met can be proud, I've never met one who I would call pretentious.

Professor literally means teacher, in the context of BJJ. It's the equivalent in Portueguese to our own use of the term, "coach." I've never run across anyone who uses the term in the same way that others of you use "master," "grandmaster," "soke," or any other inflated honorific. Sensei to Professor to Coach is about as simple and direct a translation as one can get. The words are synonymous from Japanese to Portuguese to English. It makes perfect sense to me that when speaking to someone, you would try to use their own language. And, for what it's worth, if you referred to a Brazilian as "coach," I dont think they'd care at all.

 

[Rich Parsons]

There's certainly no law regulating how the title is used, so all anyone can do is report the conventions in their area and/or their opinion.

My opinion, as I said, is that unless you've got a PhD (or similar), you probably shouldn't use the title.

I also think that unless you're a physician, you shouldn't use the title "Dr".

DD,
The MDs came after the PhDs. So the PhDs used the term first.
So the Johnny come lately MDs need to go find a new title.

Sorry I could not resist making a comment.

Perception is reality, if everyone uses a word to mean something even if it does not mean that by definition and history of the word then the meaning of that word changes.

Personally while I do think of GM Remy Presas when people say Professor, I hardly ever called him that. I usually called him just Sir on the mats or Remy off the mats.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Yeah, based on reading your posts over time I didn't think you were one to use those titles.

And if I was going to use titles, then skip Master. I am a Baron, so you can call me "Your Excellency" - another title that's never used, except by friends who are giving me a rash of crap at the time.

Side question - in your experience, what percentage of TKD instructors who are entitled to use the "master" or "grandmaster" titles according to the organization to which they belong actually do use said title?

I think that most use the at least part of the time.
I think it's sort of like the belt issue. Those who are most clearly entitled to be called "Master" are the least likely to actually use them. I've never heard either my own instructor or our KJN ever use them, except when referring to someone else.

 

[Hyoho]

For what its worth 'sensei can be one of the most misused words in Japanese. Anyone you respect in your particular grou pthat has something to teach you might be called sensei although they might have no particular qualifications. On the other hand my doctor friends are called sensei in a hospital but are just plain 'San' when shopping. Banks are best as customers are called 'sama' meaning 'lord'. I hold masters certification and have enough dan grades attained as a Japanese resident to paper a wall. But just plain Sensei is enough for me. Its all about ego. Something we should leave outside the dojo. Budo is a community activity and not about how important you wish to be.

 

[Steve]

For what its worth 'sensei can be one of the most misused words in Japanese. Anyone you respect in your particular grou pthat has something to teach you might be called sensei although they might have no particular qualifications. On the other hand my doctor friends are called sensei in a hospital but are just plain 'San' when shopping. Banks are best as customers are called 'sama' meaning 'lord'. I hold masters certification and have enough dan grades attained as a Japanese resident to paper a wall. But just plain Sensei is enough for me. Its all about ego. Something we should leave outside the dojo. Budo is a community activity and not about how important you wish to be.

For a humble guy eschewing ego, you sure did a nice job sharing your impressive resume with us all.

" Did I mention I have enough Dan grades to paper a wall and have an advanced degree.? Shucks if there's anyone who deserves an honorific, it's me. But sensei is cool, cause I'm that humble. "

 

[Buka]

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

C'mon, you'all.

 

[Hyoho]

For a humble guy eschewing ego, you sure did a nice job sharing your impressive resume with us all.

" Did I mention I have enough Dan grades to paper a wall and have an advanced degree.? Shucks if there's anyone who deserves an honorific, it's me. But sensei is cool, cause I'm that humble. "

Nothing impressive about my resume. Going on forty years with ten practices a week in Japan and anybody could do it.

 

[msmitht]

All black belt instructors are usually referred to as professor and their first name. Non black belt is called coach. Not too strict about it. The respect is earned on the mat, not forced by words or meaningless titles like "great supreme grand master"