Prison Wardens and the penal system

[Eazy]

I have watched Doco's on The hardest prisons and i think some serious issues need to be raised in regards to the current security systems with inmate control.

1> Inmate seperation
It seems that inmates have to much control of what gose on in prisions ie gangs like the Ayian Brotherhood for starters and pose a great threat to society even on the outside buy operating within the system and can put hits on prison wardens familys to keep control.
This needs to be crushed with an iron fist.
No warden should feel threatened by these thugs or alike.

2>Racism within the walls and hits on inmates.
Culteral and colour full sepertation at all times may linit this even different meal times and yard times with no contact to each other even though fences.
Remember they forfeted their own freedom.

3> How can a prison attack or murder have less consequences than a murder done outside the walls?
I seen one bloke admitt to killing i think it was 20 inmates with his own hands in his time inside this is insane. You can't give a person 20 life sentences can you?.

4>They openly admitt they have control over the system.

5> take away any excesise equipment, That only makes them stronger.
Alot of them are built like tanks and its happening before the wardens eyes.
It makes them stronger and harder to control and more intimidating, Take it away althogether. That excersise equipent should be for the wardens not the inmates.

Propper drug searches of visitors, They showed on camera a drug pass in action and an inmate walked passed to block the camera whist it happened to try to block the view. Increadable What the hell was he doing in the room at the same time?
How did the drugs get that far?
why wasnt the visit put between a screen with the phone comunication system?.
They had full contact across a table in a room with other inmates getting visitors. To lax in my opinion.
Its way to late by the time the pass has been made, It could have been a weapon and used on a warden.
It seems to me theres alot of ground to be picked up here and alot of real changes to be made.
Once you forfiet your freedom thats it. But you should still be safe.
Hit messages getting from one prison to another.Wow, whats with that?.
Thes are very real concerns and with the biker clamp down i suspect heavy recutement within the prison walls of Australia and a copy of whats happening in the US.
Whats your thoughts on this topic?
Proof below

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8acs-xu5dSI&feature=related

 

[Eazy]

Heres more. This one shows the drug Pass.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Evm7NDKIfnI&feature=related

Staight out murder.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6a0oTQGaE4&p=C033B4004C883DE6&playnext=1&index=33

Hard reality Troy Kell Murder Gladiator days

absolute control. (crazy)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSOKgLrlAeg&feature=related

two mens opinions dosn't look a Majority. The change has failed. Cival rights are lost once your in prison you loose all rights and only get privlages on merit. Well thats how it should be.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwe56I3zp1o&feature=fvsr

 

[MJS]

I have watched Doco's on The hardest prisons and i think some serious issues need to be raised in regards to the current security systems with inmate control.

1> Inmate seperation
It seems that inmates have to much control of what gose on in prisions ie gangs like the Ayian Brotherhood for starters and pose a great threat to society even on the outside buy operating within the system and can put hits on prison wardens familys to keep control.
This needs to be crushed with an iron fist.
No warden should feel threatened by these thugs or alike.

2>Racism within the walls and hits on inmates.
Culteral and colour full sepertation at all times may linit this even different meal times and yard times with no contact to each other even though fences.
Remember they forfeted their own freedom.

3> How can a prison attack or murder have less consequences than a murder done outside the walls?
I seen one bloke admitt to killing i think it was 20 inmates with his own hands in his time inside this is insane. You can't give a person 20 life sentences can you?.

4>They openly admitt they have control over the system.

5> take away any excesise equipment, That only makes them stronger.
Alot of them are built like tanks and its happening before the wardens eyes.
It makes them stronger and harder to control and more intimidating, Take it away althogether. That excersise equipent should be for the wardens not the inmates.

Propper drug searches of visitors, They showed on camera a drug pass in action and an inmate walked passed to block the camera whist it happened to try to block the view. Increadable What the hell was he doing in the room at the same time?
How did the drugs get that far?
why wasnt the visit put between a screen with the phone comunication system?.
They had full contact across a table in a room with other inmates getting visitors. To lax in my opinion.
Its way to late by the time the pass has been made, It could have been a weapon and used on a warden.
It seems to me theres alot of ground to be picked up here and alot of real changes to be made.
Once you forfiet your freedom thats it. But you should still be safe.
Hit messages getting from one prison to another.Wow, whats with that?.
Thes are very real concerns and with the biker clamp down i suspect heavy recutement within the prison walls of Australia and a copy of whats happening in the US.
Whats your thoughts on this topic?
Proof below

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8acs-xu5dSI&feature=related

1) I enjoy watching those shows as well. Its amazing what they'll do, to get messages to others, ie: hidden messages in letters, etc. I think that the security division of the prison does the best they can, and while it may slow or put up some 'roadblocks' in the process, I doubt it'll end altogether.

2) This is done to a point.

3) What other options are there? I recall one guy, never gave me any issues, was looking at life in prison for murder. We were chatting about different things, and somehow got on the subject of discipline in the prison. He said that he wouldn't have thought twice about taking a swing at me. He said think about it....whats going to happen to me? So they take away visits for a week, solitary for a week, phones, etc., big deal. He was looking at life. So taking something away for a week or two wasn't any skin off his back. No, he never attempted to hit me, nor gave me any issues, but he made a good point.

4) I dont agree with that totally. If they had the control they think, then they'd eat when they wanted, use the phone when they want, shower, visits, and so forth. However, they dont.

5) This I agree with 100%. Personally, if I had a say, I'd make them spend 23 of the 24hrs a day, in their cell, come out for 1hr. to shower, visits, phone, rec, etc. Other than that, you ****ed up, you pay the price. Maybe you'll think twice before ****ing up again. Wishful thinking, I know. LOL.

The place that I used to work at seemed to have more out of cell time, than in cell time. I worked the 4-12 shift. They'd come out to eat, usually around 430 or 5, then back in. Out again around 6, 630 for the next 4hrs. Amazing.

As for the rest of your post...its simple...alot of it comes down to the COs not doing their jobs. Despite them landing in prison, they're not that dumb. They watch and see who does what, which in turn, tells them what they can/can't get away with.

 

[Eazy]

MJS Thanks for your good answers, I have never had anything to do with the Penal system but there defenetly are thing that need sorting out at a goverment level even more cells and space. Over crowding Puts wardens at risk as tension grows etc.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

When was the last time a hardened criminal called shots from, called hits from, was paroled from or escaped from a cemetery?

 

[jks9199]

MJS Thanks for your good answers, I have never had anything to do with the Penal system but there defenetly are thing that need sorting out at a goverment level even more cells and space. Over crowding Puts wardens at risk as tension grows etc.

It's easy to sit on the outside and criticize. There's a lot more involved than you may realize. Here's one example: One of the major outlaw motorcycle gangs has an annual ride by a prison where they have many members in residence. The prisoners actually line the fence as they ride by. When I first heard of this -- I was shocked, like most cops. Why would you let prisoners do something like that? But -- a Correctional Officer enlightened us. For that one day -- the COs get months of leverage. As MJS pointed out, what's a prisoner looking at life got to lose? For the CO to be able to say "do that, and you'll be inside for the ride", they get a lot compliance and power over the inmates.

Prisoners have nothing to do but spend their day thinking about how to get around the rules. It's not a surprise that they find ways to get around them... And lots of prisons today do restrict the exercise equipment available. But body weight exercises and creativity work great, whether you're behind bars or in the free world.

And that's without even getting into things about different countries, and rights... Yes, at least in the US, a prisoner still has quite a few rights.

 

[Eazy]

Im with you, save the tax payers and the wardens alot of trouble as well as worrying about their family wheather a hit is put out. It an abortion of the justice system.
It needs a full revamp.

Capital punishment for Known Murderers.

They have Gang Bangers out side to do their dirty work to even put a hit on a goverment officials family or Judges Family.

Ide like to here from someone who is working in prison at the moment to find out what changes are comming.

No one should have to go to work wondering if their family fate rests on their job.
If i worked their and one of those guys told me to pass a message or my i'll never see my kids again i would pass the message. (always Family first) So you have to ask the question after seeing all those flicks and the one of the cell inmate murder that went for 20mins whats going on.

I don't blame the wardens by no means at all they have their hands tied they are probably tied down harder than the inmates believe it or not.

Ive been watching and reading on the net about this stuff for over 2 years now.
All i hear is the prisons are getting over crowded, Not only hear but all over the world.

I'll probably get a hit on me puting this here, Haha. who knows?.
Those guys have Millions of $ and conections all over the world. Plus high profile people under there thumbs. They don't even want to leave prison they got an empire they reckon. They have to stay to keep it going, Talk about the dog that bit back.

 

[Drac]

Every C.O. I know is in favor of prisons returning to " The Rock" style of structure.. One man, one cell..No weight lifting equipment. No Internet, etc..etc..

 

[Eazy]

Yep and murder in prison is still murder they call it self defence and thats how they get off a murder charge.
I think that should change one inmate commited around 20 hits on inmates with his own hands and is content to tell the story.
This shows a system breaking down, if you go inside its not supposed to be a life sentence. They put human feisis on a shank to make sure the job will never heal and blood poisoning is sure to follow if the wound is patched. (sick)

 

[MJS]

MJS Thanks for your good answers, I have never had anything to do with the Penal system but there defenetly are thing that need sorting out at a goverment level even more cells and space. Over crowding Puts wardens at risk as tension grows etc.

The late, great George Carlin, did a small routine on prisons. It went something like this: "Everyone talks about building more prisons. BUILD MORE PRISONS!!!!!! but not here." He called it NIMBY....Not In My Back Yard. And ya know what....George, just like so many other things he talked about, was spot on with this as well.

Thing is, you'll never please everyone. Prison overcrowding...people say that for small drug offenses, such as a small amount of marijuana, should be no jail. Ok, fine. Take out all of the small time drug users. Now, what happens when those people need money? They steal. So now you have small time drug user.....who's stealing from the cash register where they work, stealing from mom and dad, steal from this one, that one, etc. Now you no longer have a small time drug user. Should those people be in jail?

I'm not looking to start debating marijuana use...lol...God knows we've had more than our share of those. I was using that as a simple example. My point after that long winded response..lol...was....where do we draw the line?

Overcrowding puts a toll on everyone, unfortunately. I remember guys sleeping on the floors of the 2 dorms that we had. The dorms were just huge open areas, with bunk beds. Obviously the guys in there were ones with minor offenses. Doesnt make them any less dangerous, but thats how they seperated them. Anyways, so now you had a few more spread out on the floor....along with the 120 that were already in the bunks.

 

[MJS]

It's easy to sit on the outside and criticize. There's a lot more involved than you may realize. Here's one example: One of the major outlaw motorcycle gangs has an annual ride by a prison where they have many members in residence. The prisoners actually line the fence as they ride by. When I first heard of this -- I was shocked, like most cops. Why would you let prisoners do something like that? But -- a Correctional Officer enlightened us. For that one day -- the COs get months of leverage. As MJS pointed out, what's a prisoner looking at life got to lose? For the CO to be able to say "do that, and you'll be inside for the ride", they get a lot compliance and power over the inmates.

Very True.

rs have nothing to do but spend their day thinking about how to get around the rules. It's not a surprise that they find ways to get around them... And lots of prisons today do restrict the exercise equipment available. But body weight exercises and creativity work great, whether you're behind bars or in the free world.

I remember watching this guy workout. The guy was huge. This particular day, he had a deck of playing cards. He'd take a card, flip it over, and whatever number or face card was showing, he'd do that many pushups. He did this for the entire deck of cards. Lots of crunches, curls with a broom handle with full bleach containers tied to the ends. There was some weight equip. in the dorm, but this guy chose to do what he was doing.

 

[profesormental]

Greetings.

Interesting enough, research has shown that neither more surveillance, nor harsher punishment has a significant effect on crime rates.

What does have a significant effect is that they perceive that they are actually gonna get caught. This relies on community oriented policing services approach, and high level policing/investigation skills, more than on privacy intrusion and such that is now relied on by law enforcement.

good knowledge of the beat and community relations will have the perp fingered in no time.

Yet comparatively little resources go into improving training in these areas... go figure.

 

[Eazy]

Another point ide like to make is the repeat offenders.
1st time Engagement of an offender needs to be looked at.
When they go to prison its like a crime school they may go in for an unpaid fine even but by the time theve got out theve learnt so much more making drugs weapons, concealment, car theift, to fight hard, Any way you get the idea.
With the above mentioned there is a good chance they picked up contacts and future mates of course.
So once one becomes apart of the penal system its very hard to get out even if one decided to change and start living clean then an old cell mate shows up with a sawn off shotty and has a plan to do do a job and needs a get away driver or something well that person is pretty much back in after a bit of swaysive dissusion a few beers.

Now it might seem ive hyped this up, I havn't its just what gose on
ive got a mate this happened to and he was in and out for years well he spent 20 years in total inside as a repeat offender.
He got mixed up in a bike club through the penal system.
Hes a good man and has other ambitions now he hasn't been in for over 6 years now but it all started off when he was a teen.
So i think more focus on the first time offenders to do something constructive inside and seperated from general population of the longer term offenders may be something to consider.
I know they have the farms and stuff that is good and teaches them something.

More education needs to be offered to schools or people who are looking like one day ending up there.
I seen a program they took people into a prison and a prisoner told them about his life inside, This is good.
Not only dose it get awarness out there but also gives the prisoner some form of positve activity.
Anything positive is good.
We shouldn't need bigger prisons if we have a good system but with population growth and more menassing drugs on the market its an uphill battle to utalise what there is.
Education and engagement before is the key. Using the prisoners for this purpose is a positive approach.
Just the fact that we are here talking about it is a step in the right direction as it can't be just swept under the carpet.
When that happens riots happen.