I agree with this 100%
But tell me if I am wrong to think it's ok to call ******** on the people who are doing so after expressing how stupid,wrong, and narrow minded the people calling for the boycott of Oreo were for doing the exact same thing...
Priorities: Chick-Fil-A, Starbucks, & the Economy
- Thread starter celtic_crippler
- Start date
I agree with this 100%
But tell me if I am wrong to think it's ok to call ******** on the people who are doing so after expressing how stupid,wrong, and narrow minded the people calling for the boycott of Oreo were for doing the exact same thing...
Can't have one without the other-of course, the media has a lot to do with this, but-and this is the bottom line-the Chick-Fil-A position, and the position of those who called for a boycott of Oreo, is rapidly becoming the minority narrative, if not minority position in this country. Consequently, it gets shouted down-especially since most of its justifications are either arbitrarily based on religion or revulsion, and thus simply illogical to most Americans, who really, really, really don't care what anyone else does, and don't see how it affects them.
bluewaveschool
2nd Black Belt
Oreos are far more tasty than CFA, so no one gave a crap. Also, the Prez of Nabisco wasn't on TV going 'I support the gays so much I give them millions each year!' They just quietly do their thing and go on. I think if the Prez of Nabsico had done that, there would have been much more outcry.
As for denying CFA permits to build based on past actions... that depends on state laws. Federal law does not protect gays, some states do. If CFA willingly discriminated against homosexual employees becoming managers, or denied potential franchise owners based on being homosexual, then those states can (and should) bring the hammer down for violating the law. Kentucky does not offer such protections, they can discriminate all they want here.
As for denying CFA permits to build based on past actions... that depends on state laws. Federal law does not protect gays, some states do. If CFA willingly discriminated against homosexual employees becoming managers, or denied potential franchise owners based on being homosexual, then those states can (and should) bring the hammer down for violating the law. Kentucky does not offer such protections, they can discriminate all they want here.
ballen0351
Sr. Grandmaster
The president of chick fila wasn't on TV saying he supports traditional marriage either he gave an interview to a Christian paper and the national news grabbed it took parts out of context and ran with it. If you read the entire interview he was talking about how there are no Christian companies only Christian people. Jesus didn't die for a company. He was then asked about gay marriage and replied he believed in the traditional family of a man and woman. So he didn't bring it up or even mention it until he was asked by a reporter. He answered honestly and didn't try to blow smoke like most people now days
Tgace
Grandmaster
Well...that must make you a hater and your business needs to be boycotted into failure I guess....
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Wo Fat
Purple Belt
Nothing wrong with freedom of speech; i.e., disagreeing with each other. The concern is that some want to make freedom of speech the same as freedom of association.
Title VII has a lot to say about freedom of association when it comes to hiring, firing and promoting.
ballen0351
Sr. Grandmaster
I've never seen any evidence chick fila discriminates against anyone. If its out there please show it.
Big Don
Sr. Grandmaster
Tolerance and the appearance of impropriety are both one way streets apparently...
Wo Fat
Purple Belt
Show it? Like a full page newspaper ad saying "gays need not apply"? Seriously, I've not concluded that they do discriminate (and I've said as much in several of my posts that it's fair to at least investigate their management hiring and franchise awarding practices to be sure).
Beyond that, Bob Hubbard has offered plausible, if not anecdotal evidence that Chick-Fil-A does not hire openly gay or lesbian owners and managers.
ballen0351
Sr. Grandmaster
“The Chick-fil-A culture and service tradition in our restaurants is to treat every person with honor, dignity and respect regardless of their belief, race, creed, sexual orientation or gender,” the company said in a statement released by its corporate headquarters in Atlanta
The statement goes on to say that Chick-fil-A is a “family-owned and family-led” company founded by Truett Cathy that is managed on “biblically based principles” that include “closing on Sundays, operating debt-free and devoting a percentage of our profits back to our communities.”
Yep sounds evil to me shut them down
Steve
Mostly Harmless
Would be pretty stupid, considering its illegal to discriminate based in sexual orientation in many areas of the country, not to mention the other nationally protected categories. Kind of a pointless request. Isn't it?
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Big Don
Sr. Grandmaster
Defining Religious Liberty Down
By ROSS DOUTHAT
NY TIMES EXCERPT:
Published: July 28, 2012
THE words freedom of belief do not appear in the First Amendment. Nor do the words freedom of worship. Instead, the Bill of Rights guarantees Americans something that its authors called the free exercise of religion.
Its a significant choice of words, because it suggests a recognition that religious faith cannot be reduced to a purely private or individual affair. Most religious communities conceive of themselves as peoples or families, and the requirements of most faiths extend well beyond attendance at a sabbath service encompassing charity and activism, education and missionary efforts, and other exercises that any guarantee of religious freedom must protect.
I cannot improve upon the way the first lady of the United States explained this issue, speaking recently to a conference of the African Methodist Episcopal Church. Our faith journey isnt just about showing up on Sunday, Michelle Obama said. Its about what we do Monday through Saturday as well ... Jesus didnt limit his ministry to the four walls of the church. He was out there fighting injustice and speaking truth to power every single day.
But Mrs. Obamas words notwithstanding, there seems to be a great deal of confusion about this point in the Western leadership class today.
<<SNIP>>
But they cannot be exercised in ways that might deny, say, employer-provided sterilizations to people who really dont want kids. Nor can they be exercised to deny ones offspring the kind of sexual gratification that anti-circumcision advocates claim the procedure makes impossible. They certainly cannot be exercised in ways that might make anyone uncomfortable with his or her own sexual choices or identity.
It may seem strange that anyone could look around the pornography-saturated, fertility-challenged, family-breakdown-plagued West and see a society menaced by a repressive puritanism. But its clear that this perspective is widely and sincerely held.
It would be refreshing, though, if it were expressed honestly, without the of course we respect religious freedom facade.
If you want to fine Catholic hospitals for following Catholic teaching, or prevent Jewish parents from circumcising their sons, or ban Chick-fil-A in Boston, then dont tell religious people that you respect our freedoms. Say what you really think: that the exercise of our religion threatens all thats good and decent, and that youre going to use the levers of power to bend us to your will.
There, didnt that feel better? Now we can get on with the fight.
END EXCERPT
Surprised to see that in the NY Times...
By ROSS DOUTHAT
NY TIMES EXCERPT:
Published: July 28, 2012
THE words freedom of belief do not appear in the First Amendment. Nor do the words freedom of worship. Instead, the Bill of Rights guarantees Americans something that its authors called the free exercise of religion.
Its a significant choice of words, because it suggests a recognition that religious faith cannot be reduced to a purely private or individual affair. Most religious communities conceive of themselves as peoples or families, and the requirements of most faiths extend well beyond attendance at a sabbath service encompassing charity and activism, education and missionary efforts, and other exercises that any guarantee of religious freedom must protect.
I cannot improve upon the way the first lady of the United States explained this issue, speaking recently to a conference of the African Methodist Episcopal Church. Our faith journey isnt just about showing up on Sunday, Michelle Obama said. Its about what we do Monday through Saturday as well ... Jesus didnt limit his ministry to the four walls of the church. He was out there fighting injustice and speaking truth to power every single day.
But Mrs. Obamas words notwithstanding, there seems to be a great deal of confusion about this point in the Western leadership class today.
<<SNIP>>
But they cannot be exercised in ways that might deny, say, employer-provided sterilizations to people who really dont want kids. Nor can they be exercised to deny ones offspring the kind of sexual gratification that anti-circumcision advocates claim the procedure makes impossible. They certainly cannot be exercised in ways that might make anyone uncomfortable with his or her own sexual choices or identity.
It may seem strange that anyone could look around the pornography-saturated, fertility-challenged, family-breakdown-plagued West and see a society menaced by a repressive puritanism. But its clear that this perspective is widely and sincerely held.
It would be refreshing, though, if it were expressed honestly, without the of course we respect religious freedom facade.
If you want to fine Catholic hospitals for following Catholic teaching, or prevent Jewish parents from circumcising their sons, or ban Chick-fil-A in Boston, then dont tell religious people that you respect our freedoms. Say what you really think: that the exercise of our religion threatens all thats good and decent, and that youre going to use the levers of power to bend us to your will.
There, didnt that feel better? Now we can get on with the fight.
END EXCERPT
Surprised to see that in the NY Times...
ballen0351
Sr. Grandmaster
Wouldn't be the first company to get in trouble for discrimination. Some on here have no problem making suggestions to illegal employment practices I was just curious if there were any proof or lawsuits out there against them I couldn't find any.
Only ones I could find on a quick check
Rather small number in my opinion.
How to get your own Chik Fil A franchise
The official reason the gay couple was rejected?
"We don't feel that you have the business dedication/ your backup funding appears to be inadequate / You don't have prior experience/..."
They will never say "you can't have it because you're a pagan homosexual high priestess and her living in sin heathen harlot". That would get them a lawsuit and they are smarter than that. There is -always- another reason you can dig up to disguise.
http://www.glaad.org/blog/chick-fil-sued-gender-discrimination
http://www.fox5sandiego.com/news/ks...arassed-at-chickfila-20120105,0,2055463.story
http://www.beliefnet.com/News/2002/10/Muslim-Sues-Chick-Fil-A-For-Discrimination.aspx
Rather small number in my opinion.
How to get your own Chik Fil A franchise
http://smallbusiness.chron.com/approved-open-chickfila-11450.html
The official reason the gay couple was rejected?
"We don't feel that you have the business dedication/ your backup funding appears to be inadequate / You don't have prior experience/..."
They will never say "you can't have it because you're a pagan homosexual high priestess and her living in sin heathen harlot". That would get them a lawsuit and they are smarter than that. There is -always- another reason you can dig up to disguise.
ballen0351
Sr. Grandmaster
1st guy if he really fired her so she could be a stay at home mom is a moron and should be fired
2nd one you have woman claiming sexual harassment against a female owner
A muslim upset over christan values in a christan business kinda like a chevy fan taking a job at the ford dealer that gets upset he needs to work on fords
I agree for the number of stores. I personally have been sued more then 3 times so far as a cop.
We applied for a Chick Fila about 5 years ago and we were told the same thing we didnt have enough business background. They adivsed us to take some classes and try again. 3 years later someone opend a store up where we wanted to and its PACKED all day its one of the top stores in the state.
Wo Fat
Purple Belt
Your last point is on point. Chick-Fil-A has a great business model, and some of the individual owners are absolutely great people. Not saying that you weren't qualified as a franchisee; just saying that they are understandably demanding in who they award franchises to.
As to the lawsuits ... it's not surprising that there are some. Every large business that's open to the public and is integrated, will likely face some kind of employment discrimination suits. And they won't all be frivolous. Some of the suits will have merit.
Your analogy about the Muslim American employee is interesting. On the one hand, CFA has said that they are not a "Christian business" but that they espouse "Christian values". Yet any follower of Christ knows that you do not demand a non-believer to pray. You especially don't demand that he or she pray in exchange for something of value (like their job).
Ironically, when it comes to employee treatment it may be Chick-Fil-A that needs a strong lesson on "Christian values".
Tgace
Grandmaster
Bear with me, this is just a thought experiment...and a question, because I honestly don't know the business legalities of the following.
If I wanted to start a coffee shop called "Christs Cafe" and I served "Crucifiction Cappuccino" with "Basicalla Brownies" in an atmosphere with stained glass windows, Christian Music playing, Bibles on the tables and the Pope Channel playing on the television 24/7 would that be legal?
If I employed members of my Church there (as in I only placed help wanted ads in the Church program or announced it at Church functions) would that be legal?
If it became successful and I opened 10 more in my part of the country would that change things?
If I wanted to start a coffee shop called "Christs Cafe" and I served "Crucifiction Cappuccino" with "Basicalla Brownies" in an atmosphere with stained glass windows, Christian Music playing, Bibles on the tables and the Pope Channel playing on the television 24/7 would that be legal?
If I employed members of my Church there (as in I only placed help wanted ads in the Church program or announced it at Church functions) would that be legal?
If it became successful and I opened 10 more in my part of the country would that change things?
Would you serve Muslims, Neo Nazis, and Atheists?
Tgace
Grandmaster
Sure...what better way to convert them than when they read the scripture I have printed on all the cups and napkins?
