Pressure Points in Karate

I agree that the Bubishi Text is a great source of information on pressure point striking, history of the martial wayand it's tradition in accordance the white crane system, monk fist boxing and the like! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!
 
I spent 6 months at SSMMA. I left just because it wasn't the environment I was looking for. I completed my contract and moved on. However Steve was very nice to me while I was there and treated me fairly considering the conditions that I came to him with. He works hard on the material Dillman has presented him with and has a very successful commercial school. I wish him nothing but success in whatever he chooses to do.

I am still very leary of the effectivness of pressure point use in actual confrontation. I do not debate that they will work, just the circumstances under which they will work.
 
I can understand the argument against pressure points in stand up outside of striking range but why wouldn't you be able to use them in ground fighting? In a ground fight the problem isn't always not being able to make contact but rather leverage and speed for a strong hit (and pressure points don't nessisaraly nead either)
 
I dont know many presure points but on that i do know i have used in a confrontation, it wasnt really life or death i was just helping some kid in my phys ed class. The teacher was gone and we were in the room with the matts on the floor, one of my classmates came up behind another kid, wrapped his arms around his neck and feet around his legs, they both fell and started to roll around. Watching it go on for long enough and the guy in the hold apparently wasn't having much fun. I simply knelt down and a pressure point i was taught in some of the takedowns we were learning, i grabbed his elbow and pressed on the back of it whith my thumb, he kinda yelled and instantly let go. Its the only one i know but ive got kids to there knee's using it, others its alot harder to use on. My sensei couldnt seem to use it on me but he could find MANY other ones to use.
 
In Yiliquan, we make use of pressure points extensively (even though this is the karate forum, I figured since Kenpo/Kempo was in this thread, too, it would be okay if I chimed in...).

We have three levels of points - Stunning and Painful, Temorarily Disabling, Killing and Crippling.

In our forms, we acknowledge four levels of breakdowns - Obvious (punch is a punch), Hidden (punch is a block), Secret (throws, breaks, joint locks) and Mysterious (striking points).

Every strike is meant to go to some striking point. My teacher has always quoted his teacher as having said:

If you do not strike a vital point every time you strike, you may as well slap your opponent across the face.
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The forms (and I do not want to debate forms again :D ) contain the strikes and the angles that allow for the proper application of the strikes. Without a teacher that knows the applications, they will be lost to the first group they are not taught to. Subsequent "generations" will then also be without that information, and so on.

Once you have been taught the principles of form breakdown, it is easier to understand other forms, even from other styles, though it is unlikely you will be able to unlock all the information contained in them...

Just my devalued 2 yen...

:samurai: :samurai:
 
Matt,

I agree wholeheartedly with you. How do others feel about this?

Mark
 
I remember in America in the late 70's and early 80's when everyone was interested in Sport Light/No Contact Point Tournaments and Ninja stuff and nobody in the western karate world was interested or could actually do TuiteAtemi/Kyusho. (They, Atemi/Kyusho, are two different things by the way, most people confuse atemi points & kyusho points.....but that's another topic)

My teacher was the first person in America to introduce and actually give detailed instruction in the theory and application of karate kata in regards to tuite/atemi/and kyusho. When he first came over to the US it was a rather difficult time for him since most people were still in the point tournament and ninja craze and most hadn't even heard of tuite/atemi/and kyusho let alone have any interest in it.
It is really amazing to me how far this idea and concept has spread.
 
Robert,

Who is/was your teacher. I am interested to know. Please elaborate on the Atemi/Kyusho part of your note as well.

take care!

Mark
 
Originally posted by Mark Kline

Robert,

Who is/was your teacher. I am interested to know. Please elaborate on the Atemi/Kyusho part of your note as well.

take care!

Mark
Click to expand...

I am a student of Taika Oyata. (see my webpage/profile for more info)

The atemi/kyusho explanation is rather long and I am pretty lazy when it comes to typing and explaining stuff.
Suffice it to say they are different from each other and many "kyusho people" use the term kyusho when they are, more often than not, referring to an atemi area.
 
I would imagine (not being much of a karate guy, and only having the briefest of exposure to it) that the atemi would be striking areas that are anatomically vulnerable (i.e. solar plexus, eyes, temple, etc.), but not specifically related to nerve, blood or acupuncture meridian striking...

But I'm probably wrong.

:D

:samurai: :samurai:
 
Matt,

we can go over that stuff next time we meet up.
 
So what is everyones views about Kyusho and it's effectiveness and use? If you study it how do you train with it and does it work well for you? If you don't study it why not add it to what you currently do?

Looking forward to eeveryone's feed back.
 
My teacher is a ceritfied instructor in KI.

We do Shaolin kempo.

The combination of the 2 bodies of knowledge is great. Many of our techniques already used targets very close to points. Minor alterations in sequence and targets are producing excellent results.

 
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Your instructor wouldn't happen to be Shawn Steiner would it? I'm also a CI in Kyusho International. Shawn is a good good guy and a good instructor, I've known him for years.

Let's talk about how and what techniques using the points help what you are doing to make it more effective... or if you are studying points from a certified kyusho instructor from one of the well known groups that teach kyusho and you are having trouble getting them to be effective at all. If you have learned from a good teacher and still are having trouble getting them to work. I'm not just talking KOs either, that has very little to do with how kyusho can help you in a real fight. ;)
 
Yes, it is :)

I can;t see youtube from work so I linked that video without making sure, it's his isn't it? LOL

Are you going to Ohio next wekk?
 
Jim Greenwood said:
Let's talk about how and what techniques using the points help what you are doing to make it more effective... or if you are studying points from a certified kyusho instructor from one of the well known groups that teach kyusho and you are having trouble getting them to be effective at all. If you have learned from a good teacher and still are having trouble getting them to work. I'm not just talking KOs either, that has very little to do with how kyusho can help you in a real fight. ;)
Click to expand...

I'm headed out the door right now, but in general I'd say using point knowledge has made the techniques more consistently effective ie a punch to the ribs vs a punch to liver 13. "ribs" is vague, and you can hit the "ribs" and get 3 different effects.

Also the finishes of the techniques: "knife hand to the neck" gets a lot more specific and effective.
 
Any acupuncture charts will work - but you need to know/discover which point is working and how it is working - touch/hit/brush ;)

Mark - what is you own oppinion on this ? :)
 
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