Press knife possession charges on a disabled man?

[OULobo]

Story for debate: Wheelchair bound civil servant in airport "smuggles" in 2 in. knife, is caught and now being "made an example of".

http://www.slweekly.com/editorial/2004/city_2_2004-02-05.cfm

Is a 2 in. knife in a wheelchair bound man's bag a viable threat? Is it much of an example to prosecute a disabled man? Is it time to ease the penalties of
"crimes" like this?

 

[Ito-okita]

I'm fed up with the reaction of "sheeple" to pocket knives I always carry 3 knives on my person and if more people like me were on that plane (let's say 30 or so) 3 people with box cutters wouldn't have hijacked it! They'd be outknifed 10 to 1 ! Sorry for the rant but this makes me outrageous!

 

[OULobo]

I'm fed up with the reaction of "sheeple" to pocket knives I always carry 3 knives on my person and if more people like me were on that plane (let's say 30 or so) 3 people with box cutters wouldn't have hijacked it! They'd be outknifed 10 to 1 ! Sorry for the rant but this makes me outrageous!

There are many here who agree with you, myself included. Someone once said that the best way to stop 9/11 repeat attacks, would be to hand out knives to everyone who boards the plane and take them back when they deboard. I tend to think that most terrorists wouldn't bother trying to attack the same way they did on 9/11, because we are looking and ready for it (regardless of if they allow a 2 in. knife on the plane or not). I also think that if the same situation happened today, they would never get control of the plane, because all the passengers would know how extreme the consequences could be.

By the way, feel free to rant, it's partially what forums are for.

 

[Flatlander]

Story for debate: Wheelchair bound civil servant in airport "smuggles" in 2 in. knife, is caught and now being "made an example of".

http://www.slweekly.com/editorial/2004/city_2_2004-02-05.cfm

Is a 2 in. knife in a wheelchair bound man's bag a viable threat? Is it much of an example to prosecute a disabled man? Is it time to ease the penalties of
"crimes" like this?

Difficult topic.

Fact - that knife was illegal to carry on the plane.

Fact - it is the citizen's responsibility to know the law, ignorance is no excuse.

So, he's responsible for whatever the repercussions. BUT - the accused also claims that he thought the knife had been confiscated. If that is true, then the the guard who the accused claims replaced the knife in the carry bag can corroborate that, and there should be no guilty verdict, as that would remove intent.

I think that the law needs to be applied equally regardless of individual circumstance in order to be effective. If concessions are made because this guy is in a wheelchair, where do we draw the line? Can the guy with a bum knee carry too? Must airport security go through some type of verification process to ensure all the wheelchair bound that carry are actually crippled? And would this not be a furthurance of categorization and profiling of people?

Ultimately, we should all stand equally before the law. A person in a wheelchair has no more right to self protection than anybody else.

 

[loki09789]

Difficult topic.

Fact - that knife was illegal to carry on the plane.

Fact - it is the citizen's responsibility to know the law, ignorance is no excuse.

So, he's responsible for whatever the repercussions. BUT - the accused also claims that he thought the knife had been confiscated. If that is true, then the the guard who the accused claims replaced the knife in the carry bag can corroborate that, and there should be no guilty verdict, as that would remove intent.

I think that the law needs to be applied equally regardless of individual circumstance in order to be effective. If concessions are made because this guy is in a wheelchair, where do we draw the line? Can the guy with a bum knee carry too? Must airport security go through some type of verification process to ensure all the wheelchair bound that carry are actually crippled? And would this not be a furthurance of categorization and profiling of people?

Ultimately, we should all stand equally before the law. A person in a wheelchair has no more right to self protection than anybody else.

Take into account too that you are dealing with a layer of enforcement that usually is a combination of contract civilian security, transit or department of trans LEO all the way up to Fed agencies.... The consistency and quality of enforcement, professionalism and such will vary as you move up and down that handling process.

 

[OULobo]

I think that the law needs to be applied equally regardless of individual circumstance in order to be effective. If concessions are made because this guy is in a wheelchair, where do we draw the line? Can the guy with a bum knee carry too? Must airport security go through some type of verification process to ensure all the wheelchair bound that carry are actually crippled? And would this not be a furthurance of categorization and profiling of people?

Ultimately, we should all stand equally before the law. A person in a wheelchair has no more right to self protection than anybody else.

I agree, but I would then bring up the issue of how many others in this type of situation have been given a pass and the most important issue, should we changes the current laws to ones more realistic.

 

[shesulsa]

Tough questions - good thread. I concur that there are those who need more personal protection, though I also concur that the law is only fair if applied uniformly. One can already pack a knife such as this into checked luggage. I have actually entered the airport still carrying and going to the nearby restroom to insert my knives into my luggage immediately before checking it, then, upon arriving at destination removing it from the luggage right there before I even leave the building.

Incidently, what are the laws governing CWPs on commercial aircraft?

 

[bignick]

my judo/jujutsu instructor weapons of choice are those NASA space pens that are heavy duty metal...they'll always let him on the plane and it's just as good for stabbing as attacking pressure points and so forth...

as for this particular situation...the law is the law...and we have an obligation to follow it, if we don't like it we live a country where we can set in motion actions to change those laws...and that's about the best you can do in this situation...

 

[KenpoTex]

When I fly (rarely) I do basically what shesulsa said (put the knives in the checked bag, get them out as soon as I get where I'm going). In my carryon I had a small flashlight; a very sturdy metal pen; a big, fat Sharpie marker; and a garrotte made out of braided, waxed string (rigged to look like a lanyard on the zipper).

As far as the guy in the wheel-chair, yeah it sucks to be him but he made the mistake of trying to get on with it. Yeah the reg's are dumb, and most of the people enforcing them are even dumber but what can you do?

 

[OULobo]

Incidently, what are the laws governing CWPs on commercial aircraft?

I believe they hold no weight. You have to declare your weapons at baggage check. They cannot be on your person, and they must be secured in a locked and stable container. Some airports even take you to a private room so that security can watch you open the container and then relock it before they take possession. If I am not mistaken, not even the FBI are allowed to have firearms or any other weapon on board, only the Air Marshals(sp) are allowed.

 

[KenpoTex]

I believe they hold no weight. You have to declare your weapons at baggage check. They cannot be on your person, and they must be secured in a locked and stable container. Some airports even take you to a private room so that security can watch you open the container and then relock it before they take possession. If I am not mistaken, not even the FBI are allowed to have firearms or any other weapon on board, only the Air Marshals(sp) are allowed.

I think you nailed it pretty good. Of course, even the armed Air Marshals can't have nail-clippers (go figure).

 

[Drac]

Coppers and Fed can carry their weapons on board an aircraft providing they meet the criteria of the FAA and that they have submitted the proper paperwork....

 

[OULobo]

Coppers and Fed can carry their weapons on board an aircraft providing they meet the criteria of the FAA and that they have submitted the proper paperwork....

You mean they can carry them on their person on the craft. I'm pretty sure that's not true, especially firearms. Even Air Marshals can only carry weapons that the FFC thinks will do minimal hull damage if they miss the target. If they restrict their own Air Marshals, I can't see them allowing any other officer. fed or not to carry on board.