Prejudice World-Wide

[Tez3]

Good, thoughtful dialogue is important regarding prejudice, racial, national or otherwise. Having the dialogue can get us to think about it and try to figure out what we can do to make the situation better. Human nature would indicate that no matter what prejudice, racism are around for good. (I do not see it disapearing) Yet by making it an issue we as people can hopefully learn from it.


Now Madonnas concert performance and speech brought some awareness to this and really is that a bad thing? Maybe some action can be taken to create a better situation!

All Madonna has done is stir things up, the real help is already being done, if you look at the website I posted the link to (funded by the EU) you'll see that various organisations and groups have been working on this for a while now, it would have been better if she had publicised that rather than speak from ignorance.

 

[CoryKS]

It would have been perfect if, after having her say, she sang "Papa Don't Preach". :rofl:

 

[Flea]

Once some of them become very, very, famous, something within them surfaces. They feel this sense of power over their following, and though misguided, causes them to push agenda's because of the captive audience.

I read somewhere that at a U2 concert, Bono stopped the band and started clapping his hands very solemnly. "Every time I clap my hands, a child in Africa dies." The house was dead silent, so everyone heard some guy shout back ...

"Well then stop clapping, you idiot!!"

:boing2:

 

[MarkBarlow]

I think Celtic Crippler wanted people to look at prejudice world wide. In my travels around the world I have witnessed prejudice and discrimination everywhere. How do we change that?

Prejudice is as old as mankind and will last just as long. That doesn't make it right but one group's prejudice is seen as thoughtful self protection by another group.

For the vast majority of our existence, if you were not of my village, you had no rights and were barely a person. Even today, large portions of the world have absolutely no interest in anything that happens outside their borders. If you are not of my village, not of my clan, not of my family, why should I care?

As the world shrinks, we're seeing that there is, or should be, a family of mankind, not just those around us. Little by little, it is improving. There isn't as much acceptance by society of prejudice. That's not to say that individuals don't act on ignorance and hatred, just that fewer and fewer governments and cultures endorse such behavior as reasonable and acceptable.

Greeks hate Turks, Danes hate Swedes, Alabama fans hate Auburn fans and Nancy Pelosi would love to shove all those "unAmericans" in a wood chopper. I'm pretty sure if you asked any of these folks why they feel so strongly, they'd have a list of offenses but the bottom line is "they aren't one of us".

 

[Tez3]

So, how long have Danes hated Swedes?
Greeks hate Turks as many do in the Middle East because the Turks massacred thousands and thousands of people, extreme prejudice in their case. Just a small 'offence'? Try peace keeping in Cyprus and see the graves to understand the local feeling in just one place. The Ottoman Empire was a harsh enemy.
It's not right of course but more understanding is needed. It's not just a case of 'them being different' it's more than one side may have better land or access to the sea or more money. One side may have a leader with ambitions to take over the world whatever though a deeper look is needed to understand the problem and find solutions, it's a little trite suggesting it's just down to the fact that we 'think they are different'

 

[MarkBarlow]

So, how long have Danes hated Swedes?
Greeks hate Turks as many do in the Middle East because the Turks massacred thousands and thousands of people, extreme prejudice in their case. Just a small 'offence'? Try peace keeping in Cyprus and see the graves to understand the local feeling in just one place. The Ottoman Empire was a harsh enemy.
It's not right of course but more understanding is needed. It's not just a case of 'them being different' it's more than one side may have better land or access to the sea or more money. One side may have a leader with ambitions to take over the world whatever though a deeper look is needed to understand the problem and find solutions, it's a little trite suggesting it's just down to the fact that we 'think they are different'

Like I said, everyone can give a reason for their prejudice. Sometimes it makes sense, sometimes it doesn't. Regardless, it's a prejudice. No one alive is without some sort of prejudice, large or small.

I'm not defending it, just stating what I see as a fact.

 

[Tez3]

Like I said, everyone can give a reason for their prejudice. Sometimes it makes sense, sometimes it doesn't. Regardless, it's a prejudice. No one alive is without some sort of prejudice, large or small.

I'm not defending it, just stating what I see as a fact.

You made it sound trite I'm afraid bundling something like the Turks and Greeks together with two sports teams. Many times it's not a case of simple prejudice as much as downright hatred, that's is a much harder thing to fight against.

 

[MarkBarlow]

You made it sound trite I'm afraid bundling something like the Turks and Greeks together with two sports teams. Many times it's not a case of simple prejudice as much as downright hatred, that's is a much harder thing to fight against.

If I came across as trite, I apologize. I realize that Greeks, Armenians, Koreans, Chinese, Native Americans, Finns and countless other groups/nationalities/etc. have legitimate complaints against other groups/nationalities/etc. But it all supports my line of thought, prejudice is the nature of the beast.

 

[Tez3]

If I came across as trite, I apologize. I realize that Greeks, Armenians, Koreans, Chinese, Native Americans, Finns and countless other groups/nationalities/etc. have legitimate complaints against other groups/nationalities/etc. But it all supports my line of thought, prejudice is the nature of the beast.

I don't think it's prejudice though, I think what is between these people as with the Roma is more than that, it's deeper, it's a hatred not just a prejudice against them. To say it's prejudice makes it sound as if it's just something akin to dislike or distaste for some people, as when someone comments about ginger headed kids, that's prejudice, what is going on in many countries is a terror, a fear, of some people and a loathing, a deep hatred of them on the other side. The Roma are hated in many places not just prejudiced against, that rarely kills people it'll stop them getting jobs or going to school but fear, anger and hatred kills.

To underestimate the level of emotion that is going on in many of these countries is dangerous.

 

[MarkBarlow]

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Tez3]

Thanks for the feedback.

Thanks for the sarcasm, semantics indeed.

Were the Jews, Gypsies, Jehovahs Witnesses, mentally ill, gay, communists merely prejudiced against in Nazi Germany them or were they hated enough to be killed like animals in an abattoir?

I think Americans may use the word prejudice differently from us, we take it to mean 'to pre judge, to already make your mind up about something usually adversely but not necessarly.' It doesn't have the connotations that you seem to think it has.

 

[MarkBarlow]

Thanks for the sarcasm, semantics indeed.

Were the Jews, Gypsies, Jehovahs Witnesses, mentally ill, gay, communists merely prejudiced against in Nazi Germany them or were they hated enough to be killed like animals in an abattoir?

I think Americans may use the word prejudice differently from us, we take it to mean 'to pre judge, to already make your mind up about something usually adversely but not necessarly.' It doesn't have the connotations that you seem to think it has.

No sarcasm intended. It's obvious that you saw my posts in a certain way and choose to proceed with that assumption. I apologized if anything I said struck you as trite or offensive. That wasn't sufficient for you.

I thanked you for your input and made a conscious decision to not continue this conversation. As you say, perhaps we use the word prejudice differently. Therefore, it is a matter of semantics.

You were wrong to assume that I was being disrespectful. I merely did not want to continue a discussion that was not productive.

 

[Tez3]

I think it's very hard for non Europeans to understand the feelings we have when they haven't experienced things like the Holocaust or having your country invaded. You can think about it but it's always worse than you could ever imagine. You judge things by your own countries experiences and while you have prejudices you never had the death camps or the communist secret police etc the Roma mentioned in the OP did.

 

[David43515]

I was suprised to hear you spend so much time on the difference you percieve between hated and predjudice. I don`t think there`s any difference in the result, it`s just the reason behind it. Maybe we do use the word differently in the US.

I always thought of hate being what you feel for an individual and predjudice as being what you feel for a group. (Not in the singular vs plural sense, but in the sense of hating an individual for a reason and hating all members of a group because of some preconceived image of all members of that group.)

Either way, if you`re treating someone like crap when they haven`t done anything to deserve it, it`s a pretty rotten way to live your life.

 

[Tez3]

I was suprised to hear you spend so much time on the difference you percieve between hated and predjudice. I don`t think there`s any difference in the result, it`s just the reason behind it. Maybe we do use the word differently in the US.

I always thought of hate being what you feel for an individual and predjudice as being what you feel for a group. (Not in the singular vs plural sense, but in the sense of hating an individual for a reason and hating all members of a group because of some preconceived image of all members of that group.)

Either way, if you`re treating someone like crap when they haven`t done anything to deserve it, it`s a pretty rotten way to live your life.

I was spending so much time on it because it seemed it was being perceived as not being much of a deal to start with.
Words are important and the way they are used indicates a strength of feeling that has to be put across when you can't see or hear the person you are corresponding with such as here in the internet.

 

[blindsage]

Tez we do use prejudice in a very broad sense that can go from just kind of not liking something to full blown hatred. It's also frequently a synonym here for racism.

But in addition, you may have the Holocaust and invasion from WWII that color your psyche, but other people and groups have there own history and devastating tragedies. Americans don't have the Holocause or any invasions in our history but we do have slavery, Jim Crow, lynching, the Trail of Tears, mass murders of Native Americans, the dispossesion of Chicanos, the long term disenfranchisement of poor whites, and a number of other tragedies. As said before, the Ottoman empire did a number on more than just the Greeks. The Spanish endured Franco. The Argentinians, Pinochet. The DRC, Mobutu. South Africa, apartheid. Russians- the Czars, multiple invasions, Stalin. China- the Japanese invasion, the Great Leap, the Cultural Revolution. Etc, etc, etc.

There are plenty of tragedies to go around. We share in these things. Americans may not be informed on the issues surrounding the Roma, but that doesn't mean they can't be understood on a rational and personal level.

 

[Tez3]

Tez we do use prejudice in a very broad sense that can go from just kind of not liking something to full blown hatred. It's also frequently a synonym here for racism.

But in addition, you may have the Holocaust and invasion from WWII that color your psyche, but other people and groups have there own history and devastating tragedies. Americans don't have the Holocause or any invasions in our history but we do have slavery, Jim Crow, lynching, the Trail of Tears, mass murders of Native Americans, the dispossesion of Chicanos, the long term disenfranchisement of poor whites, and a number of other tragedies. As said before, the Ottoman empire did a number on more than just the Greeks. The Spanish endured Franco. The Argentinians, Pinochet. The DRC, Mobutu. South Africa, apartheid. Russians- the Czars, multiple invasions, Stalin. China- the Japanese invasion, the Great Leap, the Cultural Revolution. Etc, etc, etc.

There are plenty of tragedies to go around. We share in these things. Americans may not be informed on the issues surrounding the Roma, but that doesn't mean they can't be understood on a rational and personal level.

True but the OP and a couple of others made light of a serious subject which undermines the fact that others apart from yourself do take this seriously. The OP itself sounded frivolous and a tad ignorant asking iif tere was affirmative action in the EU. I'm not sure frankly how much, going by some posts here, tragedies in other parts of the world are understood or known about, other than by yourself.

 

[blindsage]

Some folks (including myself at times) use sarcasm to make a point that has deeper connotations. It's not always the most productive way to approach an issue, but it usually gets a reaction.

 

[celtic_crippler]

How is asking if there is anything like Affirmative Action in Europe being sarcastic?

I'd really like to know and I would also be interested in hearing about what other accommodations have been made for the "less fortunate" across the pond in regards to assuring them fair treatment.

 

[blindsage]

How is asking if there is anything like Affirmative Action in Europe being sarcastic?

Uhhh...because I said so :xtrmshock