Practicing systema

[Elchief]

I am a bit confused on how to practice systema. On one hand I am told systema is a martial art based on no form and prearranged drills. On the other hand I am wonder how you develop your skill if you don't practice some kind of "BASICS". My question for all of you experienced systema practitioner is if you are watching the videotapes and practicing off of them shouldn't you practice the "techniques" repetitively? Ex. shouldn't you practice X amount of strikes, escapes, rolls,falls,etc to have a good foundation? When I learned to play basketball we practiced layups, freethrows,chest passes, etc. and then we played the game freely. However with out those basic drills and conditioning we wouldn't have been very good as a team. Is there a proper way to train so that you get the FUNDEMENTALS down and then you are able to Freestyle systema? I am looking forward to meeting some of you at the SUMMER TRAINING CAMP. This will be my first exposure to formal training in SYSTEMA, this amazing art. In the mean time I am doing my best to prepare myself for the camp.

Thanks,
STEVE

 

[Jackal]

Hi Steve,

On one hand I am told systema is a martial art based on no form and prearranged drills.

There is a sense of form (proper posture) and there are drills designed to teach certain principles, but there are no prearranged attacks or patterns of movement.

On the other hand I am wonder how you develop your skill if you don't practice some kind of "BASICS".

Can you walk down a street and open a door to a store you’ve never been to before? Of course you can. You just walk, because it gets you where you need to go (you don’t need to practice which foot goes where) and you just reach out and open the door (you don’t need to rehearse which hand will do the reaching and how the knob will be turned or pulled). You just do it because it’s natural. You have a goal and your body automatically figures out how to do it. Systema has a similar approach to fighting. It’s just movement that makes sense. There’s nothing artificial that has to be rehearsed.

shouldn't you practice X amount of strikes, escapes, rolls,falls,etc to have a good foundation?

All of the movements shown on the tapes were improvised. Vlad was just showing examples of movement for the sake of demonstration. On the earlier tapes (H2H, Fighting from the ground..) watch for the student demos. That’s where you see Systema. No student attacks the same way twice, or defends the same way twice. The movement has an overall “feeling”. Once you understand the feeling, you can improvise as you go along. There’s nothing you can memorize. There are no basics. It’s just efficient, intuitive, improvised movement. You get better as you do it.

When I learned to play basketball we practiced layups, freethrows,chest passes, etc. and then we played the game freely. However with out those basic drills and conditioning we wouldn't have been very good as a team

Remember that basketball is a sport where everyone has a specific goal and has to operate within the confines of the rules that have been set.

Is there a proper way to train so that you get the FUNDEMENTALS down and then you are able to Freestyle systema?

The best way to start is actually by freestyling Systema with someone who knows what they’re doing. Once you get the feel of what they’re doing to you, it’s much easier to start figuring things out on your own.

Hope that helps.

 

[NYCRonin]

Hello 'Elchief'
Although I have limited time to visit this forum nowadays...I really must take the time to mention that Jackal has given you a good idea of the 'enigma art' of Systema. I know...believe me, sir...I do know...the answers given may seem cryptic or non specific...but Jackals answers are, IMO; pretty much definitive responses to your questions. It is hard to understand from written words, at times. The actual experience is so much easier to understand...and I would whole heartedly recommend that you get a chance to 'do the work' with an experienced Systema practitioner, a certified instructor --OR -- some seminar time in with the man himself -- Vladimir Vasiliev.
It will, at the very least -- be an addition to your martial understanding and skill. At most, it will change you life in oh so many ways.
It did so for me.
Perhaps the Systema will do so for you also. Thats a BIG 'perhaps' though -- I wouldnt mislead you -- 'this' is NOT for everybody.
You must find out for yourself.
May it be well with you.

 

[Clive]

I wonder why you always seem to work much better when you are training with someone more experienced. It is almost as if the skill is contagious. The strange thing is common sense would sugget that your work would seem better when you are training with someone who is not as experienced as yourself. Or is it it a case of, you skills are the same whoever you train with.

Yours confused
Clive :idunno:

 

[Elchief]

Clive,

I agree with you but there are no EXPERIENCED systema practioners where I live.

 

[Pervaz]

Clive ,


"!...I wonder why you always seem to work much better when you are training with someone more experienced..."

Get your dumb *** to London and I'll explain (beat!!) it to you

 

[Clive]

Haha

P, you couldn't beat an egg.

:2xbird:

Elchief, to answer your original question. Yes you are right, I am in a postion where I have no one to train so, I go over all the basics breathing, rolling, falling, footwork, conditioning and experimenting with everything in between, but every now and then it is nice to get beaten and thrown around. %-}

When you watch the films you have to realise that what is being shown might work for you against some people but not others. In this case you have to adapt the 'technique' to suit you, that is why they are not classed as techniques, a better name is a buliding block or an idea. For more information on solo training you may find this link useful. Solo training

Happy training.