Practical Wing Chun

[SOD-WC]

Check out 3rd section here:

Not to mention the awesomeness of that hairdo LOL.

wow that is by far the most complicated SLT i have witness to date, there is also a lot of whipping motion. is it common in that lineage?

 

[wayfaring]

wow that is by far the most complicated SLT i have witness to date, there is also a lot of whipping motion. is it common in that lineage?

Our SNT has additional movements and shapes not in Yip Man SNT.

For example, the 3 bong sau we were discussing. I've heard so many discussions about this - what is the right height of bong sau? Is it flat? Is it angled? What energy applications does it have? Does it pull? Do you use it to crash in sideways to a bridge to influence angle as some do? We have 3 with different applications - yin bong, hak bong, lan bong. Specific shapes, specific energies, specific applications.

Maybe your interests are in the simplified.

However, if we get so simple we remove bong sau, what's next? We remove fuk and tan also, and go study boxing?

 

[Eric_H]

wow that is by far the most complicated SLT i have witness to date, there is also a lot of whipping motion. is it common in that lineage?

A lot of the differences are due to our Kiu Sao, it's a training layer/technology I haven't seen in the Yip Man System, regardless of branch. It's some cool stuff, works really well for getting an advantage at time of engagement.

As for the energy/whipping stuff, I mostly was playing up that aspect that for the demo, it's just one expression of Faat Geng/Fa Jing. We've got a number of energy training layers you can play with in SNT.

 

[geezer]

So you study your Wing Chun for cultural and historical reasons? Not for practical fighting?

I mean, people need to adapt, and how fun a Bong Sau looks does it have real practical use against the trained fighters out there or even the average Joe? For me it had no practical use other than in the own Yip Man - "wing chun eco-system" You also make it sound that boxing is inferior than Wing Chun, is this your sincere opinion?

I'm not sure Yip Man VT has fewer bongs than any other system. In the Yip man branch I study bong is elastic and adaptive. So that while we only have one bong, practiced one particular way at the beginning, we discover that it takes many forms depending on the energy received: frontal bong, turned bong, dai bong, ko bong, lan bong, bong da, ...even shoulder bong.

One bong sau, or an infinite number, or perhaps no bong since it is really just a bent spring trying to strike! ...same as tan and fook. There is a reason these three are our seed techniques.

As for boxers, I see them using bongs too. Boxer bongs! Similar to the way Alan Orr uses it. Or perhaps I've just had my bell rung too many times. Everywhere I turn it's Bong, Bong, Bong...

http://avoiderdragon.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/thumbnail_floyd-mayweather.jpg

 

[Nobody Important]

FWIW, In Yuan Chai Wan Wing Chun we have the primary shape of the arm which we call Bong (Wing). This is a bent arm position that can be used at several positions and angles. Once one of the 8 Principles (Float, Sink, Spit, Swallow, Burst, Rebound, Lift, Spring) are employed with this arm shape it takes on a new name, Jung Bong, Dai Bong, Lan Sau, Goi Jau, Jaam Jau, Pei Jau, Hei Sau, Kap Jau, etc. The shape of the arm does not change (Hence, still of Bong family), but rather the angle/position from the body, the energy used and contact point (top of forearm, under forearm, elbow, etc.). There is no differentiation between offensive and defensive. In YCWWC we only have 3 primary shapes, Tan, Bong, Fuk, from here all other positions originate as based on one of the 8 Principles. So in my lineage, Bong is very important. Others may feel differently as to Bong's efficacy.

 

[geezer]

...we only have 3 primary shapes, Tan, Bong, Fuk, from here all other positions originate as based on one of the ...(basic) principles. So in my lineage, Bong is very important..

Paraphrased as above, what you say is equally applicable to the YM VT (WT) branch I train. Very different, yet not so different.

...forgive me if I'm unapologetically a "big-picture" or "forest rather than trees" kind guy.

 

[VPT]

FWIW, In Yuan Chai Wan Wing Chun we have the primary shape of the arm which we call Bong (Wing). This is a bent arm position that can be used at several positions and angles. Once one of the 8 Principles (Float, Sink, Spit, Swallow, Burst, Rebound, Lift, Spring) are employed with this arm shape it takes on a new name, Jung Bong, Dai Bong, Lan Sau, Goi Jau, Jaam Jau, Pei Jau, Hei Sau, Kap Jau, etc. The shape of the arm does not change (Hence, still of Bong family), but rather the angle/position from the body, the energy used and contact point (top of forearm, under forearm, elbow, etc.). There is no differentiation between offensive and defensive. In YCWWC we only have 3 primary shapes, Tan, Bong, Fuk, from here all other positions originate as based on one of the 8 Principles. So in my lineage, Bong is very important. Others may feel differently as to Bong's efficacy.

Yuan Chai Wan Wing Chun is the Vietnamese Wing Chun, amirite?

Whose of his student's style are you studying?

 

[Danny T]

Forms are more of reference material (cliff notes) of a large system. The student learns the major aspects of the system and just because it isn't in the forms doesn't mean it isn't in the system. That is why having a good, knowledgeable instructor in important.

 

[Nobody Important]

Yuan Chai Wan Wing Chun is the Vietnamese Wing Chun, amirite?

Whose of his student's style are you studying?

Correct, my sigung' s name in Vietnamese is Bac Quy Doan.

 

[wayfaring]

I'm not sure Yip Man VT has fewer bongs than any other system. In the Yip man branch I study bong is elastic and adaptive. So that while we only have one bong, practiced one particular way at the beginning, we discover that it takes many forms depending on the energy received: frontal bong, turned bong, dai bong, ko bong, lan bong, bong da, ...even shoulder bong.

One bong sau, or an infinite number, or perhaps no bong since it is really just a bent spring trying to strike! ...same as tan and fook. There is a reason these three are our seed techniques.

As for boxers, I see them using bongs too. Boxer bongs! Similar to the way Alan Orr uses it. Or perhaps I've just had my bell rung too many times. Everywhere I turn it's Bong, Bong, Bong...

http://avoiderdragon.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/thumbnail_floyd-mayweather.jpg

We've kind of had this ongoing discussion about bong sau training both Ip Man and HFY in the park lately. Definitely the Ip Man bong can adapt. We've got some cool stuff in our approach to the 3 shapes too.

I was more referencing a previous quote I saw about one wing chun teacher trending towards abandoning bong sau altogether.

 

[wayfaring]

So you study your Wing Chun for cultural and historical reasons? Not for practical fighting?

I mean, people need to adapt, and how fun a Bong Sau looks does it have real practical use against the trained fighters out there or even the average Joe? For me it had no practical use other than in the own Yip Man - "wing chun eco-system"

You also make it sound that boxing is inferior than Wing Chun, is this your sincere opinion?

Hi Malos. No I study Wing Chun for fighting as well as the other reasons.

To me yes I find bong sau of practical use beyond my own wing chun eco system.

No I don't think the sweet science of boxing is "inferior" to wing chun. I would just encourage wing chun practitioners to look more deeply within their own art before abandoning techniques or principles in wing chun in favor of replacing them with boxing techniques.

 

[wayfaring]

FWIW, In Yuan Chai Wan Wing Chun we have the primary shape of the arm which we call Bong (Wing). This is a bent arm position that can be used at several positions and angles. Once one of the 8 Principles (Float, Sink, Spit, Swallow, Burst, Rebound, Lift, Spring) are employed with this arm shape it takes on a new name, Jung Bong, Dai Bong, Lan Sau, Goi Jau, Jaam Jau, Pei Jau, Hei Sau, Kap Jau, etc. The shape of the arm does not change (Hence, still of Bong family), but rather the angle/position from the body, the energy used and contact point (top of forearm, under forearm, elbow, etc.). There is no differentiation between offensive and defensive. In YCWWC we only have 3 primary shapes, Tan, Bong, Fuk, from here all other positions originate as based on one of the 8 Principles. So in my lineage, Bong is very important. Others may feel differently as to Bong's efficacy.

Cool thanks for the input - some different applications of the shape with respect to energies and names. But only 3 primary named shapes. And important and functional. Thank you.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Forms are more of reference material (cliff notes) of a large system. The student learns the major aspects of the system and just because it isn't in the forms doesn't mean it isn't in the system. That is why having a good, knowledgeable instructor in important.

I'd say this is true (IMO) of any art that has forms or formal techniques.