ppko & xequat take a look

[RRouuselot]

1)Ok, do you train for realistic pressure point use?

2) If so, could you describe a few of the methods that you use?

3)I hope I was specific enough.

1)I train for realistic situations, not for "tippy-tap crap" tournaments or cute little mpegs I can post on a website. I train my students, military and others, to save lives…be it their own or someone else’s. One thing with you guys on KI…..you over emphasizes “kyusho” and not enough emphasis on more fundamental techniques…..but I guess it's the "shock and awe" effect of people seeing what you call "kyusho" that puts "bums in seats" (puts students/money in the dojo)....judging from some of the guts I see on those guys in the mpegs a good cardio workout now and then wouldn’t hurt either.

2)Beginners are shown technique using a more advanced student as a crash dummy and it’s done at a fairly realistic speed. Sometimes, depending on the beginners level, it’s done on them so they can feel the technique. Feeling technique is one of the best ways to know how it works. Next, students move from basic technique motion to more advanced motion. Eventually they put on some protective gear and try it under fairly realistic conditions. This improves reaction speed, element of surprise, working under stress etc…..this is only a brief description of some of the methods used.


3)It was better than the other guys question


So let me ask you a question now.
What's the difference between kyusho and atemi?

 

[BlackCatBonz]

[font=&quot]ppko & xequat

Do you guys have opinion on this mpeg?[/font]

http://www.kyusho.com/eyeko1.wmvhttp://www.kyusho.com/eyeko1.wmv

i believe this is what he said in the video on roberts first post.

"then i read somewhere that the optic nerve just goes straight into the brain, and i thought that was cool, so i just blap the eye......."

is this the kind of anatomical and physiological training that these guys get?
no real understanding of structure or function? no understanding of reflex or nervous system phenomenon?

i think i would steer way clear

shawn

 

[RRouuselot]

i believe this is what he said in the video on roberts first post.

"then i read somewhere that the optic nerve just goes straight into the brain, and i thought that was cool, so i just blap the eye......."

That's what I thought I heard too...... maybe we should invite Patanzi here to asnwer that question.......:idunno:..... But I guess since we at MT aren’t all connected to his association in some way (like they are at kyusho.com) he most likely won’t be coming away from his cozy little clique at kyusho.com where everyone goes around telling each other how great the other guy's farts smell.

 

[RRouuselot]

Here we have an example of "kiai jutusu" .....
http://www.markklineskarate.com/ClipsnEvents.htm

Any comments?

 

[EricD]

1)Why don’t you have mpegs of it? I mean even on your own website (found here http://www.russellstutely.com/videoclip.htm) you have all kinds of mpegs EXCEPT something showing an attacker actually moving.

2)That’s a ridiculous conclusion. Just as a person doesn’t need to be a Gourmet to know that the food on the plate in front of him is rotten, one doesn't have to be an expert in kyusho to see that the "attacker" in those mpegs is not really doing much beside standing there waiting to get smacked.



3)Again why not? Why don’t you throw up some mpegs of something a little more realistic in nature? Like I said above you have just about everything else on there.

1) I am not Russel, my name is Eric (as shown by my name here). That site does not belong to me.
2) Why is that a ridiculous conclusion? I am not contesting that the person in the mpegs you are bashing is just standing there, the uke is just standing there. See, we agree on that. What I am contesting is the general attitude in your posts that suggests you believe that none of us train with realism.
3) Again, I don't have a site.

 

[EricD]

1)I train for realistic situations, not for "tippy-tap crap" tournaments or cute little mpegs I can post on a website. I train my students, military and others, to save lives…be it their own or someone else’s. One thing with you guys on KI…..you over emphasizes “kyusho” and not enough emphasis on more fundamental techniques…..but I guess it's the "shock and awe" effect of people seeing what you call "kyusho" that puts "bums in seats" (puts students/money in the dojo)....judging from some of the guts I see on those guys in the mpegs a good cardio workout now and then wouldn’t hurt either.

2)Beginners are shown technique using a more advanced student as a crash dummy and it’s done at a fairly realistic speed. Sometimes, depending on the beginners level, it’s done on them so they can feel the technique. Feeling technique is one of the best ways to know how it works. Next, students move from basic technique motion to more advanced motion. Eventually they put on some protective gear and try it under fairly realistic conditions. This improves reaction speed, element of surprise, working under stress etc…..this is only a brief description of some of the methods used.


3)It was better than the other guys question


So let me ask you a question now.
What's the difference between kyusho and atemi?

I am quite happy to have recieved an answer to my questions. We are making progress toward further understanding one another. As for your question for me, honestly I do not know. I could Google it, but then all I would be showing is that I know how to use the internet. As you can see from my info, I am just a Yellow Belt in my current art (which happens to be where I am learning PPs). I apologize for not giving a more informed answer. Perhaps you could enlighten me?

 

[EricD]

Here we have an example of "kiai jutusu" .....
http://www.markklineskarate.com/ClipsnEvents.htm

Any comments?

Mark is a phenominal martial artist, regardless of what these clips make you think. Personally, I cannot comment on the Kiai-jitsu stuff, as I have not experienced it.

 

[RRouuselot]

1) I am not Russel, my name is Eric (as shown by my name here). That site does not belong to me.
2) Why is that a ridiculous conclusion? I am not contesting that the person in the mpegs you are bashing is just standing there, the uke is just standing there. See, we agree on that. What I am contesting is the general attitude in your posts that suggests you believe that none of us train with realism.
3) Again, I don't have a site.

1) I see

2) Your conclusion lacks any sense of logic. and if those folks train with realism as they claim why is that they have yet to show any of it on their mpegs......they might as well since they show everything else EXCEPT that.

3) So if I applied your logic it would mean you don't train since you don't even have a website to put your mpegs on.

 

[EricD]

1) I see

2) Your conclusion lacks any sense of logic. and if those folks train with realism as they claim why is that they have yet to show any of it on their mpegs......they might as well since they show everything else EXCEPT that.

3) So if I applied your logic it would mean you don't train since you don't even have a website to put your mpegs on.

2) As I have said, I cannot speak for other members of KI, only myself and the dojo I belong to. If other members of KI do not train realistically, there is nothing I can do about it.

3) Well said, and you could draw that conclusion. I was not trying to say that you do not train, I was only pointing out the flaw in your logic.

 

[EricD]

Robert (if I may address you by your first name),

A bit off topic, but I was wondering. Since you have been using the system of Oyata Seiyu for a while now, I was wondering what you think of it in terms of weaknesses and such. Also, I was considering stopping by Taika Seiyu Oyata's dojo in Independace Missouri the next time I go home to see my family, do you think it would be a productive idea?

Eric

 

[RRouuselot]

I am quite happy to have recieved an answer to my questions. We are making progress toward further understanding one another. As for your question for me, honestly I do not know. I could Google it, but then all I would be showing is that I know how to use the internet. As you can see from my info, I am just a Yellow Belt in my current art (which happens to be where I am learning PPs). I apologize for not giving a more informed answer. Perhaps you could enlighten me?

I seriously doubt you could get a correct answer by "Googleing" it......I doubt Patanzi even knows the difference since much of what he claims is "kyusho" is not.
Give you an answer? I think not. I let you find that out on your own. A few other people on MT asked me what the answer was and I emailed them the answer. However, these are people I know fairly well either through the internet or from face to face meetings. Somethings I will gladly share with anyone that asks if I know the answer. Other information I will not plaster on the internet because certain people use it to make them sound more legit or sound as if they know what they are talking about. Case in point, the folks that claim to be using a "kyusho" point on the neck to KO someone.....it's not a kyusho point.....someone said it was and now everyone thinks it is, but actually it is not.

 

[RRouuselot]

3) Well said, and you could draw that conclusion. I was not trying to say that you do not train, I was only pointing out the flaw in your logic.

Which is what? That I know what I saw. You were the one that assumed I meant they don't train realistically. I merely stated what I saw in the videos. You drew the wrong conlusion from my comments.

 

[EricD]

I seriously doubt you could get a correct answer by "Googleing" it......I doubt Patanzi even knows the difference since much of what he claims is "kyusho" is not.
Give you an answer? I think not. I let you find that out on your own. A few other people on MT asked me what the answer was and I emailed them the answer. However, these are people I know fairly well either through the internet or from face to face meetings. Something I will gladly share with anyone that asks if I know the answer. Other information I will not plaster on the internet because certain people use it to make them sound more legit or sound as if they know what they are talking about. Case in point, the folks that claim to be using a "kyusho" point on the neck to KO someone.....it's not a kyusho point.....someone said it was and now everyone thinks it is, but actually it is not.

Not to mince words, but you are a bit confusing sir. You say that you will not tell me the difference, yet three sentences later you say that you would tell anyone who asks. Why would you not share this information with me then? Is it due to my affiliation with KI? If so, I understand your bias, although I do not agree with it.
On another note, I am quite happy that our discussion is becoming productive and that I am understanding where you are coming from.

 

[EricD]

Which is what? That I know what I saw. You were the one that assumed I meant they don't train realistically. I merely stated what I saw in the videos. You drew the wrong conlusion from my comments.

Then please accept my apology for misunderstanding.

 

[RRouuselot]

Robert (if I may address you by your first name),

A bit off topic, but I was wondering. Since you have been using the system of Oyata Seiyu for a while now, I was wondering what you think of it in terms of weaknesses and such. Also, I was considering stopping by Taika Seiyu Oyata's dojo in Independace Missouri the next time I go home to see my family, do you think it would be a productive idea?

Eric

Define “weaknesses”

As for going to his dojo feel free. If he is not in town there are plenty of other member dojo you can stop by. In fact I would recomend you go to an Assoc. dojo first. Send me an email and I can introduce you to some.

 

[RRouuselot]

Not to mince words, but you are a bit confusing sir. You say that you will not tell me the difference, yet three sentences later you say that you would tell anyone who asks. Why would you not share this information with me then? Is it due to my affiliation with KI? If so, I understand your bias, although I do not agree with it.
On another note, I am quite happy that our discussion is becoming productive and that I am understanding where you are coming from.

Read it again.......

Somethings I will gladly share with anyone that asks if I know the answer. Other information I will not plaster on the internet because certain people use it to make them sound more legit or sound as if they know what they are talking about.

 

[EricD]

Define “weaknesses”

As for going to his dojo feel free. If he is not in town there are plenty of other member dojo you can stop by. In fact I would recomend you go to an Assoc. dojo first. Send me an email and I can introduce you to some.

By saying weaknesses, I was asking if there was anything you felt was missing from the system. I ask because I personally miss a few of the practices from my training in Shaolin Lohan Chuan such as Iron Body training.

Thank you for the offer. I will be dispatching an email to you shortly.

 

[MJS]

Looking over the last few posts, a few things are apparent.

1- Lots of mpegs that are showing variations of KOs.

2- No realism in said mpegs.

3- Claims that people do train KO applications with realism.

So...what I believe is trying to be determined here, is....If there are people out there that are doing them with realism, why are they not being posted? That is a quesstion that I, as well as some others on here are curious of. As it was said before, if they were posted, I think that it would clear the air, so to speak.

Mike

 

[EricD]

Read it again.......

Somethings I will gladly share with anyone that asks if I know the answer. Other information I will not plaster on the internet because certain people use it to make them sound more legit or sound as if they know what they are talking about.

Sorry about that, I misread it. Although, from what I have read (yes I googled it), it seems that Atemi are more generalize striking areas whereas Kyusho is more precise. I understand that this may be off base, but with so many unwilling to share truth, deceit and misinformation runs rampant.

 

[EricD]

Looking over the last few posts, a few things are apparent.

1- Lots of mpegs that are showing variations of KOs.

2- No realism in said mpegs.

3- Claims that people do train KO applications with realism.

So...what I believe is trying to be determined here, is....If there are people out there that are doing them with realism, why are they not being posted? That is a quesstion that I, as well as some others on here are curious of. As it was said before, if they were posted, I think that it would clear the air, so to speak.

Mike

Personally, I have no video camera. When I talked to my sensei before Christmas, he said he would be getting a camera in the near future. Once he does, I will personally see what I can do about getting some more realistic clips on the net.