Politicizing Murder

[Jonathan Randall]

I have to admit that I am very disturbed and extremely disgusted and frustrated at the moment. One political forum (no, not going to say which) that I frequent off and on but rarely post to, has multiple threads going regarding the Karr/JonBenet case. One popular thread more or less says, "Who cares who JonBenet Ramsey is, it's just a right-wing distraction from the War in Iraq". Some of the posts suck so heavily. Let's get one thing straight; JonBenet was an INNOCENT six year old CHILD who was brutally murdered and she did not ask for this ****. I just can't believe that so many folks are so sociopathic as to miss this basic point. I had a friend who once confided in me that "people suck". I thought she was being to cynical, but now I agree with her.

Somewhere out there is a person who bludgeoned and strangled an innocent child without care or remorse (or they just MIGHT have stepped forward, don't ya think?). The very existence of such a creature gives pause, doesn't it?

 

[Don Roley]

You are right. That does suck. And it does not seem to be the only thing that is being politicized.

I just can't imagine the mentality of someone whose first reaction to a popular news story is to try to make some sort of attack on a political party with it. To take a case of a little girl being murdered and then trying to use that to further their conspiracy theories just drives me nuts.

Whatever forum you are talking about, the people must all be angry lunatics to give any sort of support to that type of atmosphere. Leave them alone to make tin foil hats and talk about the various conspiracies to divert attention, etc.

 

[michaeledward]

Haven't we all been obscenely fascinated with this event for 10 years?

I'm not sure that there is anything new we can learn that we have not speculated about and walked through the emotional responses already.

While you might find it offensive that someone would label the coverage of this story - 10 years on - as a rightwing policitcal distraction, it seems that removing the adjectives would properly describe what's going on.

It is a distraction ... from whatever else is going on.

Bread and Circuses!​

Not just an episode of Star Trek (TOS).

 

[Touch Of Death]

Haven't we all been obscenely fascinated with this event for 10 years?

I'm not sure that there is anything new we can learn that we have not speculated about and walked through the emotional responses already.

While you might find it offensive that someone would label the coverage of this story - 10 years on - as a rightwing policitcal distraction, it seems that removing the adjectives would properly describe what's going on.

It is a distraction ... from whatever else is going on.

Bread and Circuses!​

Not just an episode of Star Trek (TOS).

Exactly, and why this little girl as opposed to the live little girls and boys being taken everyday under our noses.
Sean

 

[Don Roley]

Haven't we all been obscenely fascinated with this event for 10 years?

I'm not sure that there is anything new we can learn that we have not speculated about and walked through the emotional responses already.

While you might find it offensive that someone would label the coverage of this story - 10 years on - as a rightwing policitcal distraction, it seems that removing the adjectives would properly describe what's going on.

It is a distraction ... from whatever else is going on.

Bread and Circuses!​

Not just an episode of Star Trek (TOS).

I find this attitude a bit offensive.

I find the whole idea that one person should tell someone else what they should or should not take an interest in offensive. It smacks of those radios they have in North Korea that are not only set to the official channel, but can't be turned off. Someone decides that something is important, something else is not important and tries to impose his will on everyone. It is just wrong.

And hey, I happen to think that all the news about celebrities and even sports events are rather silly. But I would never try to tell others that they should listen to what I think is the Holy Word of importance. At most I would say that if they do not know all the subjects involved in an election, they should stay home or do some more reading.

But the idea of people telling others what the politically correct news to watch and comment about drives my freedom- loving soul nuts.

In this case, we are seeing a whole media circus that dammed two parents shown to be a big mistake. The lessons of this incident and the idea that the media and public at large should tell us what to think is something I really think needs to be looked into.

But even if it were not, to look down your nose at people because they are not interested in things that you happen to think are important enough strikes me as dangerously arrogant. I do not like being told what to watch, think or say. I will not be told what to do by people who claim to know what is best for me.

And I will not be shut up by people telling me that I should be reading and commenting on the politically correct news stories instead.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

I find this attitude a bit offensive.

I find the whole idea that one person should tell someone else what they should or should not take an interest in offensive. It smacks of those radios they have in North Korea that are not only set to the official channel, but can't be turned off. Someone decides that something is important, something else is not important and tries to impose his will on everyone. It is just wrong.

And hey, I happen to think that all the news about celebrities and even sports events are rather silly. But I would never try to tell others that they should listen to what I think is the Holy Word of importance. At most I would say that if they do not know all the subjects involved in an election, they should stay home or do some more reading.

But the idea of people telling others what the politically correct news to watch and comment about drives my freedom- loving soul nuts.

In this case, we are seeing a whole media circus that dammed two parents shown to be a big mistake. The lessons of this incident and the idea that the media and public at large should tell us what to think is something I really think needs to be looked into.

But even if it were not, to look down your nose at people because they are not interested in things that you happen to think are important enough strikes me as dangerously arrogant. I do not like being told what to watch, think or say. I will not be told what to do by people who claim to know what is best for me.

And I will not be shut up by people telling me that I should be reading and commenting on the politically correct news stories instead.

:cheers:

That is why this story, now at least, is SO IMPORTANT. It's a lesson in modern witchhunting and tabloid journalism that people and the media need to learn from. Turns out there NEVER was any credible evidence whatsoever that the parents were involved in this at all. The "handwriting analysis" supposedly implicating Patsy Ramsey in the ransom note was done by an expert who offered his services, for a price of course, in clearing them because he was "absolutely certain of their innocence".

There's another reason why this is so important - JonBenet herself. She knows nothing of what has occured since her death, the circus and all, and she deserves to finally have some justice.

 

[michaeledward]

I find this attitude a bit offensive.

I find the whole idea that one person should tell someone else what they should or should not take an interest in offensive. It smacks of those radios they have in North Korea that are not only set to the official channel, but can't be turned off. Someone decides that something is important, something else is not important and tries to impose his will on everyone. It is just wrong.

And hey, I happen to think that all the news about celebrities and even sports events are rather silly. But I would never try to tell others that they should listen to what I think is the Holy Word of importance. At most I would say that if they do not know all the subjects involved in an election, they should stay home or do some more reading.

But the idea of people telling others what the politically correct news to watch and comment about drives my freedom- loving soul nuts.

In this case, we are seeing a whole media circus that dammed two parents shown to be a big mistake. The lessons of this incident and the idea that the media and public at large should tell us what to think is something I really think needs to be looked into.

But even if it were not, to look down your nose at people because they are not interested in things that you happen to think are important enough strikes me as dangerously arrogant. I do not like being told what to watch, think or say. I will not be told what to do by people who claim to know what is best for me.

And I will not be shut up by people telling me that I should be reading and commenting on the politically correct news stories instead.

Two thoughts ... maybe three ...


You don't like being told what to watch ...???
That this story is continuing to garner coverage is determined by people at Disney, General Electric, Newscorp and other major corporations. They decide about what you are informed. They control the on off switch of that North Korean radio.
Being offended by some knucklehead with a computer when being told what to think by Good Morning American, Today, and Fox and Friends is a real mis-alignment of reality.
What happens next? Do you call me a 'traitor' or an 'alQaeda supporter' because what happens in Colorada is irrelevant to me, completely?
Oh, and no one is telling you to 'shut up'. But, why should you let facts interfere with your strawman argument.

There's another reason why this is so important - JonBenet herself. She knows nothing of what has occured since her death, the circus and all, and she deserves to finally have some justice.

The little girl is dead. If you believe in an afterlife, the concerns of her mortal shell should be irrelevant. If you don't believe in an afterlife, this has nothing to do with her.
But, while this story is sucking all the oxygen out of the news atmosphere, there are other stories, that, perhaps should be told, that are not being told.
Ten days ago, this broke in my hometown newspaper.

http://www.wmur.com/news/9675703/detail.html

WINDHAM, N.H. -- Police in Windham are investigating what they called one of the worst cases of child abuse they have seen, after a 6-month-old boy was found with more than 24 broken bones.

This six month old boy is alive. What happens now will have a very important impact in his life. How many other stories aren't being told because of Mr. Karr's recent confession?

Lastly, if you want to indict the media for jumping to conclusion and witchhunts, and tabloid journalism, great. Yesterday, in his Press conference, the President, in response to a question about the level of violence in Iraq, "Sometimes, I'm Happy". Yet, that quote is not reported in many of the news reports. (See mediamatters . org) Take your passion for honest journalism to something that will make a difference, TODAY.

 

[Makalakumu]

You don't like being told what to watch ...???

That this story is continuing to garner coverage is determined by people at Disney, General Electric, Newscorp and other major corporations. They decide about what you are informed. They control the on off switch of that North Korean radio.

Being offended by some knucklehead with a computer when being told what to think by Good Morning American, Today, and Fox and Friends is a real mis-alignment of reality.

This is an absolutely crucial point that many people in American miss. Information is packaged, like any other product, in order to "sell" to the greatest amount of people.

 

[Don Roley]

Two thoughts ... maybe three ...


You don't like being told what to watch ...???
That this story is continuing to garner coverage is determined by people at Disney, General Electric, Newscorp and other major corporations. They decide about what you are informed. They control the on off switch of that North Korean radio.

That is so silly I do not know where to start. I don't want to be rude, but comparing the media in America to the control that North Korea has over it's citizens is just completely nuts.

When news covers things that people don't want to watch, they go elsewhere if they have a choice. And in America, people have choices. We can even go to the internet. The idea that even large corporations have that much control over us just smacks of the most strange conspiracy theories I have seen on martialtalk- and there have been some doozies here.

They sell news. We either buy or go elsewhere. To compare that with the control that North Korea has is too weird to be believed. And I suppose the answer to this would be to put everything under the proper people's control.

I guess this conversation is not going to go anywhere.

 

[shesulsa]

*head in hands*

Okay, so ... here's an idea ... turn the television off. Everybody. What if there was TV and ... nobody watched??

All TV is programming and with some journalists dying over the right to air what they feel is right, it can be difficult to say what is responsible journalism and what is pure smack. I generally lean towards about 90 percent of it being smack.

In all seriousness, I'd like to know what each person who stands on the ceremony of making their part of the world a better place is doing to make this happen? I sat outside this morning to give presence to a parking lot where daily car break-ins are a watch-setting event. Maybe someone will have their wallet after water aerobics today and the tagger won't hit the racketball court wall.

 

[Makalakumu]

When news covers things that people don't want to watch, they go elsewhere if they have a choice. And in America, people have choices. We can even go to the internet. The idea that even large corporations have that much control over us just smacks of the most strange conspiracy theories I have seen on martialtalk- and there have been some doozies here.

It may not be like NK, but there is a fair amount of control.

Here are a couple of relevant questions, IMHO.

1. What is the general character of the information you seek?
2. What kind of topics do you want to see?
3. What point of view do you want presented?

All of these are marketing questions and all of these questions are being asked by every major news outlet. This "tailoring of the product" is done so that the most amount of people will buy it. So, let me ask you this, is it too unreasonable to think that if certain bits of information, if they do not fit the character of the product, would be eschewed in favor of other information that does fit the character of the product?

IMHO, it is not unreasonable.

The bottom line is that information control of the american system. The massive news agencies have a target audience in mind to whom they market their product. Information that does not fit the paradigm of this target audience is not reported.

 

[matt.m]

I have to admit that I am very disturbed and extremely disgusted and frustrated at the moment. One political forum (no, not going to say which) that I frequent off and on but rarely post to, has multiple threads going regarding the Karr/JonBenet case. One popular thread more or less says, "Who cares who JonBenet Ramsey is, it's just a right-wing distraction from the War in Iraq". Some of the posts suck so heavily. Let's get one thing straight; JonBenet was an INNOCENT six year old CHILD who was brutally murdered and she did not ask for this ****. I just can't believe that so many folks are so sociopathic as to miss this basic point. I had a friend who once confided in me that "people suck". I thought she was being to cynical, but now I agree with her.

Somewhere out there is a person who bludgeoned and strangled an innocent child without care or remorse (or they just MIGHT have stepped forward, don't ya think?). The very existence of such a creature gives pause, doesn't it?

John,

I have to agree with you. It seems that most people non chalantly pass things over without regard unless something is happening to them. It is very sad really.

 

[Don Roley]

It may not be like NK, but there is a fair amount of control.

Here are a couple of relevant questions, IMHO.

1. What is the general character of the information you seek?
2. What kind of topics do you want to see?
3. What point of view do you want presented?

All of these are marketing questions and all of these questions are being asked by every major news outlet. This "tailoring of the product" is done so that the most amount of people will buy it. So, let me ask you this, is it too unreasonable to think that if certain bits of information, if they do not fit the character of the product, would be eschewed in favor of other information that does fit the character of the product?

IMHO, it is not unreasonable.

The bottom line is that information control of the american system. The massive news agencies have a target audience in mind to whom they market their product. Information that does not fit the paradigm of this target audience is not reported.

So in other words, people want certain things and so the things you feel are more important are not given the coverage they should. I suppose that a benevolant group of people should tell us what we should and should not watch, read and think. Because people just can't do what Shesulsa suggested and turn the television off. They just can't go to other media sources in this age of the internet and international news sources. The big corporations have such control over us that we need a group of people to come in and take control from them and use it for our own good.

That is the key, is it not? People can't buy the correct product because they are not as smart as they should be in your opinion. So they need to be limited to things that meet your standard. They need to be introduced to the Correct Political news and not fluff.

 

[Flying Crane]

That is so silly I do not know where to start. I don't want to be rude, but comparing the media in America to the control that North Korea has over it's citizens is just completely nuts.

Agreed, however you did compare MichaelEdward to the North Korean media and news control...is that as nuts, or more so?

 

[Flying Crane]

*head in hands*

Okay, so ... here's an idea ... turn the television off. Everybody. What if there was TV and ... nobody watched??

This is really the best suggestion. A few weeks ago, my wife and I decided to turn the TV off for a while and see what happens. In the last 5 or 6 weeks, I think we have watched maybe 4 or 5 hours of TV. We have watched some movies on DVD, but that is a deliberate choice. What we have NOT done, is come home from work, turn on the TV, get sucked into 4 hours of crap, then fall asleep.

Instead, we go for walks, talk more, take classes, train more, and work on back-burner projects that have been neglected.

You all should give it a try. It's bliss.

 

[elder999]

A government resting on the minority is an aristocracy, not a Republic, and could not be safe with a numerical and physical force against it, without a standing army, an enslaved press and a disarmed populace."
-James Madison, The Federalist Papers, No. 46.
The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed and that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property, and freedom of press."
-Thomas Jefferson
To preserve the freedom of the human mind then and freedom of the press, every spirit should be ready to devote itself to martyrdom; for as long as we may think as we will, and speak as we think, the condition of man will proceed in improvement. (Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Green Mumford, June 18, 1799.

In the First Amendment the Founding Fathers gave the free press the protection it must have to fulfill its essential role in our democracy. The press was to serve the governed, not the governors. The Government's power to censor the press was abolished so that the press would remain forever free to censure the Government. The press was protected so that it could bare the secrets of government and inform the people. Only a free and unrestrained press can effectively expose deception in government. And paramount among the responsibilities of a free press is the duty to prevent any part of the government from deceiving the people and sending them off to distant lands to die of foreign fevers and foreign shot and shell. In my view, far from deserving condemnation for their courageous reporting, the New York Times, the Washington Post, and other newspapers should be commended for serving the purpose that the Founding Fathers saw so clearly. In revealing the workings of government that led to the Vietnam war, the newspapers nobly did precisely that which the Founders hoped and trusted they would do.

Justice Black
NYT v. US
403 US 713

Is JonBenet news-is her killer, or alleged killer, or alleged wanna be nutbag-news? I dunno. Is it what the press was responsible for ten years ago irresponsible? Probably.

Is the press accomplishing what the Founders intended? Not at all.

The press is largely a puppet of the corporations that control it, It is in their interests to feed you stuff that keeps you on “their side,” and/or asleep.JonBonet, and the media frenzy over this-fascination with mysteries and death aside-is a perfect example of the sort of pablum that passes for news from news organizations that are largely devoted to forming public opinion and distraction from larger issues.

As a consequence of the so-called "free press" we have Americans who even today will insist that Saddam Hussein was harboring al Qaeda, that he sent weapons of mass destruction that he clearly didn't have into Syria, and that there is no global warming-in spite of nearly 100% of all scientific papers on the subject for the last 20 years saying that there is clearly global warming as a direct consequence of mankind's actions.Americans who care more about gas prices (which are lower than those in Europe, and, adjusted for inflation, lower than they were in 1974) and the murder of one pretty white child than they do about genocide in Sudan and Rwanda, AIDS, global warming, peak oil, or what their government does in their names.

The role of the free press was intended to be that of a watch-dog over government, not a complicit partner. When the news media becomes a proponent of expansionist policy and unconstitutional programs, or defenders and campaign cheerleaders for corrupt officials or political parties, then it is nothing more than a controlled propaganda arm for a corrupt government. In actuality, it is hard to say who controls whom, the government or the media, but either way, it is obviously not within the best interests of the public to allow these entities a monopoly on political opinion.

Our so-called free press has joined forces with the government against we the people and they are now nothing more than propagandists and proponents of centralized totalitarian government. Our founders feared this would happen and thus included the right to free speech and free assembly in the first amendment. They never intended for us to be restricted from meeting and openly discussing political and government affairs. Government suppression (or, in this case, subversion, both of the government and the press by corporations) of free speech is the first step toward total government control and tyranny.

NOW, GO BACK TO SLEEP.

 

[Makalakumu]

So in other words, people want certain things and so the things you feel are more important are not given the coverage they should. I suppose that a benevolant group of people should tell us what we should and should not watch, read and think. Because people just can't do what Shesulsa suggested and turn the television off. They just can't go to other media sources in this age of the internet and international news sources. The big corporations have such control over us that we need a group of people to come in and take control from them and use it for our own good.

That is the key, is it not? People can't buy the correct product because they are not as smart as they should be in your opinion. So they need to be limited to things that meet your standard. They need to be introduced to the Correct Political news and not fluff.

I just turn off the TV and work on stuff that is more fulfilling to my life.

And you are missing the point that major media conglomerates have the ability to basically reach out and touch just about everyone with a particular version of the news. They have a multifaceted approach.

Are most people "not smart" enough to realize this? Do they need to be indoctrinated with the correct political news? Hmmm...howdya think we got the system we got? Someone obviously thought this way awhile back...

 

[Blotan Hunka]

Yeah..media is a busniess. THEY GIVE US WHAT WE WANT.

Thats always been the American way. We get more of what we buy.

 

[Don Roley]

Are most people "not smart" enough to realize this? Do they need to be indoctrinated with the correct political news? Hmmm...howdya think we got the system we got? Someone obviously thought this way awhile back...

Oh Lord. To admit in public that people can't be trusted to take care of themselves and they need smarter folks (and we all think of ourselves as being smarter than normal) to take care of them just amazes me.

I am more scared of people who think I need them to tell me what is in my best interest than a guy trying to take my wallet. At least the guy with the wallet is being honest about what he wants.

 

[Makalakumu]

Oh Lord. To admit in public that people can't be trusted to take care of themselves and they need smarter folks (and we all think of ourselves as being smarter than normal) to take care of them just amazes me.

I am more scared of people who think I need them to tell me what is in my best interest than a guy trying to take my wallet. At least the guy with the wallet is being honest about what he wants.

Then I have no idea why you would vote for any neoconservative hack who learned their basic governing philoshophy from Leo Strauss.

Sorry dude, every person in our current administration basically is someone you should be very afraid of...

Take a look at this...

PNAC they were all inspired by the ideas that in which you are so fearfull. The whole concept of the "Noble Lie" should be enough to send a cluster of synchronicities throughout your view of our culture.

The whole Jon Benet case makes Americans very afraid. I makes us wonder what is wrong with our culture. It makes use look for the leader who will make everything right and safe again.

:idunno:

upnorthkyosa