Marginal
Senior Master
The meaning's pretty straightforward. Franken's existence directly enables terrorism, and liberals in general are godless or at the least, wronggodded.
Politically Incorrect Poem - Merry Christmas!
- Thread starter jetboatdeath
- Start date
Its nice to see how openminded and objective you are, as always Marginal.
Gordan,
I see that as basically a statement saying that these Stores, politicians etc are being over-sensitive about CHRISTmas. They have no problem promoting what are seen as "minority" holidays this time of year, Kwanza, Hanukkah, etc... but will not use the Christ-word for fear of upsetting the anti-Christianity crowd. It's sort of a double standard.
Personally I don't give a ****. I celebrate my way, I shop where I want, and I say what I want. "Holiday, Christmas, Hanukka," etc.
So MERRY CHRISTMAS to All, even if you don't celebrate Christmas.
Feel free to wish me merry Anything you want. Except that ******** Seinfeld holiday... I hate that ***** and the Holiday he invented.
Marginal
Senior Master
I'm just being anti PC (since it's all a fight for the "right" to be a rude jackass) like all the cool kids. Given the source, (which is also demanding that kids be proselytized in public schools) it's not hard to puzzle out the actual sentiment behind the line.
celtic_crippler
Senior Master
...and that's another thing....
There's nothing negative or harmful intended by the greeting.
There's not one light in or on my house, much less a Christmas tree (that's what it is... a Christmas tree by the way.)
It's not because I'm a "Scrooge" or anything, I just don't get wrapped up in it beyond getting gifts for family and friends. I can afford it, luckily, and it makes them happy. In the end, that's what it's about for me anyway; bringing some joy into the lives of people I care about.
I recognize why the holiday was established. It doesn't offend me and it boggles my mind as to why anyone would find it offensive. I mean, a true atheist shouldn't give two cents really. Besides, what's offensive about the spirit of giving and spreading of good will? If you find that offensive you've got more issues than just the celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ.
I also don't find Kwanza or Hanukka offensive either. Why would I? They're not celebrating or endorsing the killing, enslavement, or any other bad thing of bald Irish beer drinking guys that love martial arts. They're not trying to take away my X-Box or increase my taxes or otherwise rob me blind.
If somebody greets me with "Happy Kwanza" or "Happy Hanukka" it's meant in good cheer and not negative by any means. People have become so hateful that even when the intent behind something is good, they find a way to turn it into something negative. And that would be fine, if they just kept it to themselves, but it's not enough for them to live a miserable existance by themselves...nooooo... they want to drag everybody else into the cess pool with them. Misery loves company I guess....
So what's the big deal anyway and why's it always about Christmas? What's next? Easter? Thanksgiving? ....July 4th? Probably July 4th because it's too patriotic and Obama will cave to the fact that his wife is ashamed of America and cancel it. Give me a break. :shrug: I'm just kidding about July 4th and that does sound ridiculous doesn't it.... but if you told somebody just 10+ years ago that the "Christ" part of "Christmas" would become so offensive to some that school children would no longer do Christmas plays and so forth anymore they's probably have laughed at you about that too.
If you hate Christmas and what it stands for then hate it. I just wish those that do would be considerate enough to hate it by themselves.
There's nothing negative or harmful intended by the greeting.
There's not one light in or on my house, much less a Christmas tree (that's what it is... a Christmas tree by the way.)
It's not because I'm a "Scrooge" or anything, I just don't get wrapped up in it beyond getting gifts for family and friends. I can afford it, luckily, and it makes them happy. In the end, that's what it's about for me anyway; bringing some joy into the lives of people I care about.
I recognize why the holiday was established. It doesn't offend me and it boggles my mind as to why anyone would find it offensive. I mean, a true atheist shouldn't give two cents really. Besides, what's offensive about the spirit of giving and spreading of good will? If you find that offensive you've got more issues than just the celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ.
I also don't find Kwanza or Hanukka offensive either. Why would I? They're not celebrating or endorsing the killing, enslavement, or any other bad thing of bald Irish beer drinking guys that love martial arts. They're not trying to take away my X-Box or increase my taxes or otherwise rob me blind.
If somebody greets me with "Happy Kwanza" or "Happy Hanukka" it's meant in good cheer and not negative by any means. People have become so hateful that even when the intent behind something is good, they find a way to turn it into something negative. And that would be fine, if they just kept it to themselves, but it's not enough for them to live a miserable existance by themselves...nooooo... they want to drag everybody else into the cess pool with them. Misery loves company I guess....
So what's the big deal anyway and why's it always about Christmas? What's next? Easter? Thanksgiving? ....July 4th? Probably July 4th because it's too patriotic and Obama will cave to the fact that his wife is ashamed of America and cancel it. Give me a break. :shrug: I'm just kidding about July 4th and that does sound ridiculous doesn't it.... but if you told somebody just 10+ years ago that the "Christ" part of "Christmas" would become so offensive to some that school children would no longer do Christmas plays and so forth anymore they's probably have laughed at you about that too.
If you hate Christmas and what it stands for then hate it. I just wish those that do would be considerate enough to hate it by themselves.
All three of my kids are musical and my daughter and I sing carols in the car with the round-the-clock Christmas station together. I've been commenting on a few carols about the story they tell as it relates to the Christmas story. We break out the Bible every year and revisit the story amongst the lights and the gifts and the food and the hullabaloo.
Marginal
Senior Master
Pretty much this. Along the same lines, Happy Holidays is the same sentiment.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
I agree with you for the most part. One thing you hint at is a distinction between Christmas as a christian holiday and Christmas as a secular holiday. I think that Christians should, by all means, celebrate the birth of Christ and do the things that they believe are right in this season. but let's face it people. Santa Claus has pagan roots. The holiday has a distinctly secular side and many... many people who celebrate christmas don't give a hoot about any religious underpinnings. Many others happily combine the two.
But two distinct things they remain. Christmas at its root is a christian usurpation of a pagan holiday and from the yulelog to the missleteo to old St. Nick himself, these vestiges remain.
The point once again is to lighten up. Let everyone celebrate as they wish. It's NOT just about christ, although if it is for you, great!
Georgia, I think that's beautiful. If it brings you and your loved ones a sense of joy and meaning, then Christmas is doing its job. That's what it's supposed to be all about, and I salute you. I'll even go further than that - I envy you. I used to enjoy Christmas, and I miss that. But for me, it's gone.
Cory, I appreciate your note too. I think you may have misconstrued some of my points. With the "dying for a deal on a TV set," I was referring to this horror story from last year. I assumed everyone was familiar with that; I apologize. I may have been a little heavy-handed about criticizing the way Christmas is observed, but on this point I stand by it. No one should have to die over the gift-giving tradition. That's wrong.
I wasn't really insisting that people drop the birth of Jesus in favor of observing the Solstice either. It was merely a suggestion; something that has been meaningful to me. I know several Christians who combine elements of both, including a couple with a Christian husband and an Iranian wife; they stay up all night with friends on Shab-e-yal-Dah and greet the sunrise, often with Christmas carols. It's not about dogma, it's about community and friendship, and that works beautifully for them.
As for the suicide question, I appreciate the link. As fate would have it, I happened to have an appointment with my psychiatrist this afternoon so I asked her. She said that she's seen research on the holiday suicide rate going both ways - some studies find a correlation and some don't. In her own professional experience, she's seen a correlation. She says it tends to be hardest on people with major family issues, which makes a lot of sense. And that the impact of "Holiday depression" has a lot to do with a person's underlying diagnosis in the first place. So we're both right on that one. :idunno:
In any case, I don't begrudge anyone a sense of meaning and happiness from this time of year. It just doesn't speak to me personally, and that's fine too.
celtic_crippler
Senior Master
Exactly. Most all holidays have evolved from what would be considered "pagan" holidays... Easter is the first that comes to my mind actually.
In this case though, it seems the Christians are the one's being offended the most. And keep in mind, I'm not biased in that regard...just making an observation.
The current incarnation of the holiday is a "Christain" one... the root word is after all "Christ" regardless of the other borrowed symbols and traditions that have been merged into it.
To me, it's funny how it's seems acceptable in our current society to strip Christians of their traditions yet if it were attempted of any other group, religious or otherwise, the status quo would stand up cry foul.
I still haven't figured that one out.... but I haven't figured out how Affirmative Action is supposed to be "fair" either... I'm just wierd I guess.
I grew up watching Rudolph, Santa Clause is Coming to Town, and The Little Drummer Boy all as a part of the holiday. The majority of American families had a manger scene as part of the holiday decor. As rooted in our culture, the holiday is indeed a relgious one even though Corporate America has taken advantage of the "gift giving" aspect to the point where many have forgotten that.
Even I, who am not religeous, appreciate the reason for the season; which was a supremely unselfish gift to mankind. The philosophical meaning behind the birth of Christ is that a "father" gave as a gift to mankind his only "son" as a sacrifce to save us from ourselves is a pretty profound thing, dude.
People forget that. I don't care what you believe in, that's a lesson worth remembering. That giving, not of material things as Corporate America would prefer, but of oneself... of much more, with kindness and expecting nothing in return is truely humbling and worth doing because it makes us better people for it.
By stripping those "Christian' aspects from the holiday all you're left with is Corporate America's vision of convincing you to go into debt and running up your credit cards to buy the "love" of your friends and family or suffer shame and embarrassment... I kind of prefer to other "love" taught by the religious root of the holiday personally, unselfish giving beyond the material. I think it's a better lesson for humanity as a whole.
...just an observation.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
I appreciate your points, Crippler, but I'm not sure I can completely agree. The sentiment you speak of, the idea of giving, the themes of rebirth and celebration, predate christianity by a long shot.
The term Yule itself is a holdover from the pagan holiday celebrating the birth of the pagan Sun God being born. Holly and mistletoe were references to fertility, if I remember correctly.
Santa Claus is a mishmash of pagan folk characters. One of my favorite stories is a beltain story about the Holly King and the Oak King. The Holly King is just one of many interesting sources.
But getting back to the point, Christmas was an invention of the Pope... Julius I think, but that might not be right. Anyway, the point is that Jesus was very likely not even born in December. The date was chosen as a way to make conversion of the pagan Romans just a little easier. The incorporation of so many of the pagan traditions (including many of the things that you guys insist are "Christian" lessons such as giving, charity, celebration, family and good will) was to keep people happy as they converted to christianity.
Once again, I'm only going into all of this simply to demonstrate that this is NOT a christian gig, regardless of what you call it. Like Kwanzaa, someone invented it. A person. A guy with an agenda. Imbue these times with whatever religious or spiritual significance you'd like, but don't begrudge others the same.
And if someone opts to say, "Happy Holidays" in an effort to be inclusive, be charitable. Wish him a merry christmas back if you'd like, but don't be snotty about it. It sort of undermines the entire thing.
The term Yule itself is a holdover from the pagan holiday celebrating the birth of the pagan Sun God being born. Holly and mistletoe were references to fertility, if I remember correctly.
Santa Claus is a mishmash of pagan folk characters. One of my favorite stories is a beltain story about the Holly King and the Oak King. The Holly King is just one of many interesting sources.
But getting back to the point, Christmas was an invention of the Pope... Julius I think, but that might not be right. Anyway, the point is that Jesus was very likely not even born in December. The date was chosen as a way to make conversion of the pagan Romans just a little easier. The incorporation of so many of the pagan traditions (including many of the things that you guys insist are "Christian" lessons such as giving, charity, celebration, family and good will) was to keep people happy as they converted to christianity.
Once again, I'm only going into all of this simply to demonstrate that this is NOT a christian gig, regardless of what you call it. Like Kwanzaa, someone invented it. A person. A guy with an agenda. Imbue these times with whatever religious or spiritual significance you'd like, but don't begrudge others the same.
And if someone opts to say, "Happy Holidays" in an effort to be inclusive, be charitable. Wish him a merry christmas back if you'd like, but don't be snotty about it. It sort of undermines the entire thing.
celtic_crippler
Senior Master
That's not in debate. I never claimed those ideals were exclusive. You miss the point good sir.
You're focusing on peripheral matters and missing the meaning.
Say Babba-dabba-whoo-whiny-hoo if you want as long as you don't lose the meaning.
In our society it is a Christain gig. I'm not making that up. LOL
The "holiday" itself has been adpoted by many cultures over the centuries but that's not the point. Step out of the weeds and up to the balcony.
I think we're pretty close to being on the same page.
I know I'm sick of the whole mess too, and it only serves to distract from the importance of the message which serves no one; regardless of religeous beliefs.
celtic_crippler
Senior Master
....obviously I prefer "Merry Ho-Ho." LOL
Archangel M
Senior Master
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If you want to celebrate "Yule" then celebrate Yule.
If you want to celebrate "unbridled consumerism" than go get your credit card.
If you celebrate CHRISTmas than listen to the above...
If you want to celebrate "Yule" then celebrate Yule.
If you want to celebrate "unbridled consumerism" than go get your credit card.
If you celebrate CHRISTmas than listen to the above...
Archangel M
Senior Master
Ps: Merry Christmas!
celtic_crippler
Senior Master
That would be great!
I hope everyone has a happy holiday, regardless of what they celebrate or believe, and are reminded that giving is an honorable trait and should be continued throughout the year.
