police abuse

[LanceWildcat1]

Just one comment here. It is interesting to me that the only one's that seem to get filmed are when a black person is being the subject of police brutality. You never see any film of the white guy's that get the hell beat out of them. Makes me wonder if the press is only interested when it's a black person getting the beating. Why don't they get as interested when the victim is white. I abhor the idea of a group of policemen that can't control one suspect without bloodshed or punching the suspect AFTER they have control over the suspect. I also abhor the idea that it is only the poor 'minorities' that get publicity over cases of police brutality. It isn't like a white man never got a beating during an arrest. I know that for a fact, because I was one of those white men that got a beating. In my case, I was drunk and stupid. I paid my dues(2 weeks in jail) to society for my 'crime'. I accept that what I did was stupid, but did not deserve the response from the officer's that I got. I was friends with the sheriff at the time, and asked him afterward just how prevelant this action was by the police. He wouldn't give me an answer. I didn't really expect one-only asked to see if he would be honest and tell me that he did or didn't condone what had been done.

 

[Siegfried]

You people do know that the guy who got his head slammed into the hood of the patrol car and his face punched resisted arrest. And while doing so cut the police officer's face with his long girlish nails and pulled on the officers balls with all his might. I think the police officer acted with a lot of restraint, considering how much pain he must have been in.

 

[tshadowchaser]

Haveing delt with the police in So. Calif. I'll say that the head slam is a favorite technique. Its kind of their way of saying HELLO
On a personal note When someone is cuffed and obviously under control by numerios officers unless the prisoner is biteing or kicking or maybe grabbing your groin he is UNDER control and any action taken by police that results in injury to the prisoner after he is cuffed and under control is assult and battery if not attempted murder (depending on the serverity of the beating)

Am I saying that some prisoners dont deserve to get the s*** kicked out of them NO i'm not I was just stating a view on brutality.
Shadow
:asian:

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Siegfried
You people do know that the guy who got his head slammed into the hood of the patrol car and his face punched resisted arrest. And while doing so cut the police officer's face with his long girlish nails and pulled on the officers balls with all his might. I think the police officer acted with a lot of restraint, considering how much pain he must have been in.

You do know that not everyone arrested by the police is guilty of a crime.

You do know that once a subject is subdued that any further physical force is assault.

How about you go back and think about this one.

 

[Kirk]

Yes, let's all cry out for the abomination of the treatment of
criminals! Dammit, because the victims just don't matter! What
matters is how those that commit crimes terrorizing innocent
people get treated! Let's all stand up and cheer that in today's
court of law it is illegal for the victim or the victim's family to
testify about how the crime has effected them. And let's all ignore
the fact that when criminals were treated like criminals, chain
gangs existed and prison was just a little bit ROUGH on people
that crime wasn't as rampant then as it is today.

Originally posted by LanceWildcat1

It is interesting to me that the only one's that seem to get filmed are when a black person is being the subject of police brutality. You never see any film of the white guy's that get the hell beat out of them. Makes me wonder if the press is only interested when it's a black person getting the beating. Why don't they get as interested when the victim is white.

Maybe it's a matter of numbers in L.A. county? L.A. county has
a reputation for being racist. The L.A. riots didn't happen because
ONE black man got beaten down, it's because so many have, and
yet again, the court system let down an entire community (or so
felt the citizens of that community), and let them go. Need I
remind you of Mark Furhman? Testified in court under oath that
he wasn't racist ... then a tape was presented by him of not
only saying the N-word a billion times, but also saying the
most hateful, elitist things. So how many videos have come from
there, showing a black person being assaulted? Let's play the
odds here ... if the accusations are correct, that there are a lot
of racists among the L.A. County Sheriff's department, then you
would have to concede that a number of black men or women
are getting beat down. Let's say 100 a month. That being the
case, since they're racist, then possibly only 1 white person per month would be beat down. What are the odds that you'd come up with video of a black man getting beat down, instead of a white man? Easy math to me:soapbox:

(Edited at request of user. -Arnisador)

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Kirk
Yes, let's all cry out for the abomination of the treatment of
criminals! Dammit, because the victims just don't matter! What
matters is how those that commit crimes terrorizing innocent
people get treated! Let's all stand up and cheer that in today's
court of law it is illegal for the victim or the victim's family to
testify about how the crime has effected them. And let's all ignore
the fact that when criminals were treated like criminals, chain
gangs existed and prison was just a little bit ROUGH on people
that crime wasn't as rampant then as it is today.

Sure. So anyone who gets arrested should be beat on. Why? Well heck, they're getting arrested! What other reason would you need? Heck, don't bother letting them get a trial either because that wouldn't matter. I say we just have roving gangs of thugs that beat people they think are doing illegal things.

Sounds good to me. That is until I suppose it's you they assume have done something wrong.

 

[fist of fury]

Originally posted by GouRonin



Sure. So anyone who gets arrested should be beat on. Why? Well heck, they're getting arrested! What other reason would you need? Heck, don't bother letting them get a trial either because that wouldn't matter. I say we just have roving gangs of thugs that beat people they think are doing illegal things.

Sounds good to me. That is until I suppose it's you they assume have done something wrong.

Kirk isn't condoning police brutality, he's address the problem we have brought on by the politcally correct bunch. Criminals have more rights than victims they should get a fair trial, but if they are found guilty than they are scum that should be punished. Most criminals aren't worried about jail they'll get out soon enough for good behavior any way. Assuming they serve any jail time at all and don't just get a slap on the wrist. Most scumbag criminals aren't afraid of jail anymore it's more of a vacation for them. Of course I maybe somewhat biased sice some piece of $!@@@ broke into my house. For thier personal health and safety they better hope I never find out who it was whether they're 14 or 40 I still beat the crap out of them.

:soapbox: :angry: :sniper:

 

[Kirk]

Resisting arrest IS a crime. Assaulting a police officer IS a crime.
Sometimes it's just flat out obvious.

 

[GouRonin]

Fist, I have no problem with criminals that have been convicted of a crime dealing with harsher and more realistic punishments.

Kirk, sure resisting arrest is a crime. A minor one. One a person is arrested though that's it. Just because a guy assaults a cop doesn't give the cop any more of a right to beat him when he's already under arrest and subdued than I have to beat a guy once I have been assaulted. In fact the cop has less in the way of rights because he's held to a higher standard because we gave him a badge and a gun to enforce the law, not dish out what he thinks is appropriate. That part of the law ISN'T his job.

If a guy wants to resist arrest then by all means he's aware of what is coming to him. Once he's downed and cuffed it doesn't allow for a circle boot. Once that starts then you'll have people resisting arrest because they know what will be coming next.

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by GouRonin

If a guy wants to resist arrest then by all means he's aware of what is coming to him. Once he's downed and cuffed it doesn't allow for a circle boot. Once that starts then you'll have people resisting arrest because they know what will be coming next.

Good point .. but I'm tired of mamby pambies (heheh .. I love that
word) worrying more about criminal's rights the their poor wittle
heads than the victims. You're right, they're not the jury, and
they shouldn't be. But don't look to me for sympathy, if a
murderer happens to get beaten by a cop.

 

[Siegfried]

Originally posted by GouRonin



You do know that not everyone arrested by the police is guilty of a crime.

You do know that once a subject is subdued that any further physical force is assault.

How about you go back and think about this one.

Hey, GouRonin, why don't you have somebody pull on your balls and see how you react. You're probably going to want to kick some a$$. The officer is still human and reacted violently when put in that situation, as would most of us with balls. Sometimes there are people that are arrested that are not guilty of a crime. But when you get arrested, resist arrest and/or assault a policer officer, that is your crime. How about you go back and think about this one.

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Kirk
Good point .. but I'm tired of mamby pambies (heheh .. I love that word) worrying more about criminal's rights the their poor wittle heads than the victims. You're right, they're not the jury, and they shouldn't be. But don't look to me for sympathy, if a
murderer happens to get beaten by a cop.

I have to admit that "Mamby Pamby" is a great phrase. Heh heh heh...

The point is, the guy isn't a murderer until he's been convicted. That sounds bad and in some cases people know the guy/gal is guilty. Should a cop come into a person's home and lump up a battered woman who killed her husband because he abused her daily for years and she saw no other way of getting out?

She killed him. She admits it. People maybe even saw it. The guy probably deserved something, maybe even he deserved to be killed. That's a whole other issue. But I'd freak out if I saw the police break the door down and lump her up because she was a murderer.

The law says we should let 10 guilty men go free before we punish one innocent man. I have to admit that I'm a little tired of the 10 guys getting off more than not but if we're going to do this we have to be equal across the board.

The police are responsible to us the people. We give them that responsibility. The entire US of A was founded on this concept of freedom and the people having certain rights. The police are held to a higher standard because we GIVE them those powers to do what they do. To abuse those powers and have us do nothing about it makes us nothing more than sheep.

Personally I think it's great that there are the two sides fighting about this. They keep each other in check and watchdog each other.

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Siegfried
Hey, GouRonin, why don't you have somebody pull on your balls and see how you react. You're probably going to want to kick some a$$. The officer is still human and reacted violently when put in that situation, as would most of us with balls. Sometimes there are people that are arrested that are not guilty of a crime. But when you get arrested, resist arrest and/or assault a policer officer, that is your crime. How about you go back and think about this one.

I don't care if he stabbed him in the nutz with a q-tip. Once the guy is under arrest and cuffed and down it doesn't give the cop the right to beat on him. Sure he's human. I wouldn't react to favourable either. Doesn't matter. It's illegal to do. He can ***** and moan about it but he's still under the same legal system that the rest of us face. It's called assault. He'll have to deal with the same consequences. If you can't understand that well then it really isn't my fault.

Resisting arrest is a crime. A minor one. Assulting a police officer is a crime. Not so minor. However these things occur BEFORE the arrest. Also getting arrested is not a crime. I have no clue what gave you that idea. There are certain rules on conduct regarding arrest. I can lip off to my heart's content if I want. The police cannot punch me in the face to shut me up. If they do, it's assault. Are you understanding this more now?

Sure I can see the cop being mad. I don't blame him. What I blame him for is lack of restraint. He broke the law because he couldn't show some restraint and he'll deal with the consequences. It isn't the cop's place to deal out punishment. The kid broke the law and resisted arrest and assaulted an officer. That will be added to his charges to face in court. The cop however can face his own charges in court because he %$#@ed up and it's his own fault. It's a little easier to tell the judge, "Well it may look like I'm slamming him on the hood of the car your honour, but really we just had to move him there and he came down kinda hard." than it is to convince the judge that you just "...had to punch him in the face because he resisted arrest 10 minutes earlier."

 

[tshadowchaser]

Im not up on how long an officer in the LA county police force has to work the jail befor going on the streets but when I left so. calif. in Orange, county (aniheim,etc) the officer had to spend 6 years working the jails befor he went into the streets. After 6 years in that place they look at everyone as a criminal.
Some( not all) police are just plain mean. Some are decent people just doing a job and trying to stay alive.
I've been assulted twice by police. Once when I was just out of high school and a little drunk. The officers didn't really like smart mouthed college kids so the used there flashlights on me for a while. the other time has been mentioned already. BUT I am still friends with many officers and train with some of them on occasion.
The inviroment that they work in (in the large cities) is not the same as that of the ones in a less populated area. Many of these guys put their life on the line every day they put on the uniform. Given any job events and circumstances add up over a period of time till some people blow up, the hope is that the blow up is a singular occurence and noty a habit.
Are the courts to forgiveing on the criminal i think so but then again I addmit that if someone broke into my home I'd most likely get arrested when they came to take him to the hospital.
ok off my :soapbox:
Shadow:asian:

 

[GouRonin]

Cops are people. People are good and bad and come in all sorts of ranges. I say take each one individually as a person not as a whole and hope for the best.

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by GouRonin

Personally I think it's great that there are the two sides fighting about this. They keep each other in check and watchdog each other.

No argument there.

 

[dearnis.com]

Someone, I believe Edward Abbey, once wrote that brutal work tends to produce brutal people. Police use of force will always be an issue because officers are routinely placed in impossible situations, expected to make split second judgements, second-guessed by millions if a camera is in the right place, and, to make things interesting, take a wild guess at the amount of training the average officer receives inunarmed or less-lethal combatives.
The mere fact of someone being in handcuffs does NOT mean that they are under control. The Inglewood case is really pretty simple; IF the offender grabbed the officer's groin the reaction was; in my view, correct. If not, well, there you have it.
Officers are human, and have limits. There are bad officers; there are officers who make decisions than few of us can fathom (ie the New York case currently in the courts again).
FBI stats indicate that over 90% of arrests are made without any force beyond officer presence (no, I dont have a better number than that); also note that 90% of cases where force is used involves white male offenders (also FBI stat; no I dont have the link handy).

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by dearnis.com

Someone, I believe Edward Abbey, once wrote that brutal work tends to produce brutal people.

I don't buy that. Before felons had cable tv, playboy
subscriptions, workout rooms, steak dinners, and had to work,
make furniture, license plates, work on chain gangs, etc, there
was a lot less repeat crimes.

Start caning violent juvenile offenders .. see how many return for
another *** whoopin'.

I hung around bad kids when I was little. A lot of them got
arrested for petty theft, vandalism and the like. These were
friends of mine .. they'd say "hey we're all going to go do such
and such illegal activity", and I never went. Why? Because if
my old man caught wind of it, he'd beat my *** three shades of
red. I wasn't afraid of hurting his feelings, disapointing him,
or hurting him in anyway whatsoever .. I was afraid of an
*** whoopin', plain and simple. I had friends that were with me
on the "well you guys go, have fun" bandwagon, for the very
same reason. And contrary to namby pamby belief, I'm not more
prone to fighting, never was. I didn't grow up to hate my father.
I love and respect him more than you'll ever know, and I'm
GRATEFUL for everytime my dad tanned my hiney as a kid.
Because I damned sure wouldn't be sitting here at my desk in
a civil service job with great bennies, a loving wife, and the most
adorable baby girl in the northern continent (I'm biased). I'd be
sitting in jail, a member of some gang, with prison tattoos,
missing some teeth, and soliciting conjugal visits via the internet
as I sip my iced tea, and flip through my playboy mag.

:soapbox:

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Kirk

Yes, let's all cry out for the abomination of the treatment of
criminals!

That isn't the issue here. It's the treatment of the accused. The police arrest suspects. The courts decide of they're criminals. In other words, at the arrest stage it's too early to beat on them.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by GouRonin

I say we just have roving gangs of thugs that beat people they think are doing illegal things.

I saw that movie.