Poaching Endangered Species

[MA-Caver]

Now there's only one... in the wild anyway...

Poachers kill one of last two white rhinos in Zambia

Tue Jun 12, 9:56 AM ET
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070612/wl_africa_afp/zambiawildlifepoaching_070612135653
LUSAKA (AFP) - Poachers have shot the last two white rhinos in Zambia, killing one and wounding the other, in a night operation at the Mosi-Oa-Tunya national park in Livingstone, an official said Tuesday.

The shooting of the two endangered animals in a heavily-guarded zoological park near Victoria Falls in Zambia's tourist resort town of Livingstone took place last week.

"I can confirm that one of the white rhinos was shot dead by suspected poachers. The other one was wounded and is undergoing treatment," said Maureen Mwape, spokesperson of the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA), which would be investigating the shooting.

The dead female rhino's horn was apparently removed.

Zambia's white rhinos were all killed by poachers but the government managed to acquire six from South Africa in 1993, of which the injured male is the last to survive.

Well those bastards did it ... the poachers now left one alive in Zambia Africa, a male white rhino. If it had been a female then MAYBE there might've been a chance to keep the species going. But with poachers wanting that all elusive horn to sell on the black market for thousands of dollars I guess they don't give a damn that there could be thousands of them roaming the open plains of their homeland. Pretty sure that it's native residents that have done the killing. The era of the "great-white hunter" has long been passed and in economically poor African countries you can bet the natives are looking for ways to make every possible buck they can.
So is it worth it? Is it worth trying to keep these animals alive in their native habitat?? Despite the greed and avarice of the native humans? I mean c'mon lets kill 'em all and watch the entire continent of Africa turn (and quickly) into a huge desert wasteland. I mean without the fertilizer of these large animals there'd be almost nothing for the green stuff to grow on. Seems like they (the native people) don't care, why the heck should we? We got specimens here in more civilized countries for people to look at so let them wipe themselves out. Let them destroy their own lands and culture.
The native game wardens risk their lives daily for the lives of these creatures. How hard has their government tried to help out? How much could that country really afford to spend on watching these animals 24/7? over huge vast grasslands?
Who's really to blame here? Is it the ones willing to pay thousands of dollars for a single horn which would be ground up into powder and placed into a tea as an aphrodisiac that probably doesn't work anyway except in the mind?
Our children will only get to appreciate these animals in game preserves and zoos. How sad. How typical of the greed of mankind.

 

[Andrew Green]

Isn't that the very basis of the 3rd world model? Countries that are forced to sell limited natural resources and work for the benefit of foreign companies in order to fuel there economy? Taking the short term profits in order to survive, rather then suffering hard to get long term stability.

They do it to themselves, yet they where forced into that model long ago and got stuck in it. No one is really to blame because everyone is.

 

[shesulsa]

.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Now there's only one... in the wild anyway...

Well those bastards did it ... the poachers now left one alive in Zambia Africa, a male white rhino. If it had been a female then MAYBE there might've been a chance to keep the species going. But with poachers wanting that all elusive horn to sell on the black market for thousands of dollars I guess they don't give a damn that there could be thousands of them roaming the open plains of their homeland. Pretty sure that it's native residents that have done the killing. The era of the "great-white hunter" has long been passed and in economically poor African countries you can bet the natives are looking for ways to make every possible buck they can.
So is it worth it? Is it worth trying to keep these animals alive in their native habitat?? Despite the greed and avarice of the native humans? I mean c'mon lets kill 'em all and watch the entire continent of Africa turn (and quickly) into a huge desert wasteland. I mean without the fertilizer of these large animals there'd be almost nothing for the green stuff to grow on. Seems like they (the native people) don't care, why the heck should we? We got specimens here in more civilized countries for people to look at so let them wipe themselves out. Let them destroy their own lands and culture.
The native game wardens risk their lives daily for the lives of these creatures. How hard has their government tried to help out? How much could that country really afford to spend on watching these animals 24/7? over huge vast grasslands?
Who's really to blame here? Is it the ones willing to pay thousands of dollars for a single horn which would be ground up into powder and placed into a tea as an aphrodisiac that probably doesn't work anyway except in the mind?
Our children will only get to appreciate these animals in game preserves and zoos. How sad. How typical of the greed of mankind.

Yes, it must have been worth it. Just as you take a drink off of an aluminum can knowing it took rainforest destruction or not, they just fed their family.
Sean

 

[Flying Crane]

Isn't that the very basis of the 3rd world model? Countries that are forced to sell limited natural resources and work for the benefit of foreign companies in order to fuel there economy? Taking the short term profits in order to survive, rather then suffering hard to get long term stability.

They do it to themselves, yet they where forced into that model long ago and got stuck in it. No one is really to blame because everyone is.

Gotta agree here.

 

[Steel Tiger]

The saddest thing in all this is that the poachers do not make thousands of dollars from the sale of animal parts. They might make a few hundred at best. It is the next level in the chain that makes all the money from spurious aphrodisiacs and dagger handles (that's what most rhino horns end up as), and they are not struggling to keep their families alive. The poachers, as Andrew said, are caught in a vicious economic cycle.

But there is another side to this which rarely gets mentioned. It is the attitude of so many people towards animals. To many people animals are nothing more than resources to be used for the benefit of Man, who is clearly superior. You can see this attitude right around the globe. It is a staggering contempt for other creatures. Religion probably created it but it was seriously propogated during the nineteenth century when Europeans and Americans roamed the world shooting animals because they could. We don't do this anymore, but such attitudes are always difficult to change or get rid of.

 

[arnisador]

I found this upsetting too.

 

[Hand Sword]

Upsetting-Yes.

However, I came to a belief long ago. That is all of the wild animals will become instinct. The only one's left will be the one's in zoos and domesticated one's.

 

[Steel Tiger]

Upsetting-Yes.

However, I came to a belief long ago. That is all of the wild animals will become instinct. The only one's left will be the one's in zoos and domesticated one's.

I don't like to think it will come to this but it might. If it does, along with the fact that zoos are focussing on a smaller set of 'show' species, we're in for some trouble. Biodiversity is a very important, if little understood, aspect of the planet's wellbeing. 7000 years of obsession with monoculture has already devastated the planet's biodiversity, I wonder where we will be in another 100 years?

 

[Hand Sword]

I feel worse off than now. We need the resources of the world and animals are in the way. Added together, from the human point of view (fueled by our selfish ways)-They Lose!

 

[Makalakumu]

.

I don't think there is a period big enough to cover extinction. In geologic time, it is common enough, but in the span of human lives, the concept is nearly unthinkable. All of the white rhinos in the world will now die out. Every single one. Their genetic material, their evolutionary history, and their morphologic ancestors are now lost.

Extinction is a big deal. It's not like death because you know that something like you passes on beyond you. Extinction is the big, deep dark, the ultimate failure of the line to adapt.

We humans have caused the extinction of nearly 40% of the Earth's species in our short tenure on this planet. The extermination of the white rhino is just another blip in that regard.

So maybe the period is appropriate afterall...

.

 

[Flying Crane]

But there is another side to this which rarely gets mentioned. It is the attitude of so many people towards animals. To many people animals are nothing more than resources to be used for the benefit of Man, who is clearly superior. You can see this attitude right around the globe. It is a staggering contempt for other creatures. Religion probably created it but it was seriously propogated during the nineteenth century when Europeans and Americans roamed the world shooting animals because they could. We don't do this anymore, but such attitudes are always difficult to change or get rid of.

Very very good point. Another example, from just a couple days ago: There was a short video story on CNN.com, about a 10 year old boy who was dying of cancer. He had one of these Make A Wish things happen, where they granted his wish before he died. What did he want to do? Go to Canada and shoot a bear. So he did it. They took him to Canada with his father, he shot a bear, then came home and died on the airplane before it touched down.

Now, I am not specifically opposed to hunting, if it is done responsibly and ethically and legally. I expect this was done legally, but I just have to question the mentality of these people, when the dying wish of a 10 year old boy is to kill another animal first. I just don't understand where that mindset comes from. Under these circumstances, it just seems very twisted somehow. The cynical side of me wondered if the spirit of that bear was somehow waiting for that boy on the other side...

We see animals as completely disposable, treated like our entertainment and subject to our whims and desires. I think they deserve a lot more respect than that.

 

[Monadnock]

If I read this right, there are still more white rhinos left in Africa, not just the male in Zambia.

There are two subspecies (from Wiki), the Northern, and Southern.

There are 13 (well maybe 12 now) Northern left, and 11,600 Southern.

Still sad that someone could do that.

 

[Andrew Green]

To many people animals are nothing more than resources to be used for the benefit of Man, who is clearly superior.

To many people, other people are meant for nothing more.

 

[Makalakumu]

Very very good point. Another example, from just a couple days ago: There was a short video story on CNN.com, about a 10 year old boy who was dying of cancer. He had one of these Make A Wish things happen, where they granted his wish before he died. What did he want to do? Go to Canada and shoot a bear. So he did it. They took him to Canada with his father, he shot a bear, then came home and died on the airplane before it touched down.

Now, I am not specifically opposed to hunting, if it is done responsibly and ethically and legally. I expect this was done legally, but I just have to question the mentality of these people, when the dying wish of a 10 year old boy is to kill another animal first. I just don't understand where that mindset comes from. Under these circumstances, it just seems very twisted somehow. The cynical side of me wondered if the spirit of that bear was somehow waiting for that boy on the other side...

We see animals as completely disposable, treated like our entertainment and subject to our whims and desires. I think they deserve a lot more respect than that.

A couple of points.

1. I'm an avid outdoorsman. I love to fish and hunt and I love to bring back my quarry to my family. If the boy brought the animal home and processed it AND enjoyed the hunt, where is the harm in that? Are we arguing that hunting is bad or are we arguing that mindless waste is bad? BTW - bear is REALLY good to eat. It's some of the best meat I've ever tasted.

2. We see animals as completely disposable. We see them as a resource to be used. Are we arguing that this is bad? Our lives are dominated by the usage of plant and animal products, btw.

3. Perhaps all of this is more subtle then simply railing against the nature we evolved. I see the extinction of any species as a loss of wildness in the world. We humans are in danger of losing our roots in our quest to domesticate the planet. We share an evolutionary history with all of these creatures...common ancestral roots. When they are gone, part of our story is gone too. We were born in wildness and as we lose it, we lose our heritage.

This is why nature preserves are so incredibly important. The people who disrespect these places steal from us all.

 

[Monadnock]

Hunting programs = wildlife management. It is how states help to prevent species overpopulation and oversee responsible game harvesting.

 

[Flying Crane]

A couple of points.

1. I'm an avid outdoorsman. I love to fish and hunt and I love to bring back my quarry to my family. If the boy brought the animal home and processed it AND enjoyed the hunt, where is the harm in that? Are we arguing that hunting is bad or are we arguing that mindless waste is bad? BTW - bear is REALLY good to eat. It's some of the best meat I've ever tasted.

2. We see animals as completely disposable. We see them as a resource to be used. Are we arguing that this is bad? Our lives are dominated by the usage of plant and animal products, btw.

3. Perhaps all of this is more subtle then simply railing against the nature we evolved. I see the extinction of any species as a loss of wildness in the world. We humans are in danger of losing our roots in our quest to domesticate the planet. We share an evolutionary history with all of these creatures...common ancestral roots. When they are gone, part of our story is gone too. We were born in wildness and as we lose it, we lose our heritage.

This is why nature preserves are so incredibly important. The people who disrespect these places steal from us all.

1. I don't have a problem with hunting, as I stated, as long as it is responsible, ethical, and legal. This includes eating the animal, and not just killing it as a trophy or some notion of dominance/accomplishment. I don't recall that the video indicated the meat was brought home. What I recall was the father, or someone else involved, talking about the accomplishment of hunting an apex predator. I might have missed something in the video, but the message I got from it was that the boy simply wanted the "accomplishment" of killing a large predator. The boy fought his cancer for over 3 years, after they gave him 3 months to live. That's remarkable. But as he neared the end, his dying wish was to kill a large animal. As someone who fought off death on such an intimate level for so long, it simply surprises me that he would want to kill before he himself died. In my opinion, that's morbid and twisted.

2. You are correct, our lives are greatly dependent on the useage of animal and plant products. We are intimately tied to them for our own survival. But as such, I believe they deserve some respect. Hunting and using the meat and other body parts for useful items, once again, is OK as far as I am concerned. But hunting for a trophy and as an accomplishment, without using the meat or body parts in a useful way, is wasteful and selfish, in my opinion. Killing for the simple joy of killing doesn't make sense to me, and it makes me wonder about the mentality of someone who enjoys doing that.

3. full agreement.

 

[MA-Caver]

1. I don't have a problem with hunting, as I stated, as long as it is responsible, ethical, and legal. This includes eating the animal, and not just killing it as a trophy or some notion of dominance/accomplishment. I don't recall that the video indicated the meat was brought home. What I recall was the father, or someone else involved, talking about the accomplishment of hunting an apex predator. I might have missed something in the video, but the message I got from it was that the boy simply wanted the "accomplishment" of killing a large predator. The boy fought his cancer for over 3 years, after they gave him 3 months to live. That's remarkable. But as he neared the end, his dying wish was to kill a large animal. As someone who fought off death on such an intimate level for so long, it simply surprises me that he would want to kill before he himself died. In my opinion, that's morbid and twisted.

2. You are correct, our lives are greatly dependent on the useage of animal and plant products. We are intimately tied to them for our own survival. But as such, I believe they deserve some respect. Hunting and using the meat and other body parts for useful items, once again, is OK as far as I am concerned. But hunting for a trophy and as an accomplishment, without using the meat or body parts in a useful way, is wasteful and selfish, in my opinion. Killing for the simple joy of killing doesn't make sense to me, and it makes me wonder about the mentality of someone who enjoys doing that.

3. full agreement.

3. I am in full agreement with upnorth here as well. But as the human population grows so will our need for more space to allow for that growth. Sad as it seems the animals have got to go mentality is there. Even wonderful places like Yellowstone and other nature preserves across the globe are supposedly to help animals maintain a sense of wildness, they're still made safe for human travel and so you gotta ask what's so "wild" about that? You can drive in your car through the park/preserve and see a wild moose or a small herd of bison/buffalo or a bear and still be relatively safe ... as long as you stay in your freakin car. But you drive out of Yellowstone and two minutes later you're in town... how "wild" is that?

I'm angry that the poachers killed one of the last two remaining "wild" rhinos in that particular country. I get angry when I hear about pirate whaling and how international treaties are ignored by certian countries. I get angry when I hear about a wild predatory animal that hurt (or killed) a human being being killed itself instead of being moved hundreds or thousands of miles from it's home to be "safe". The idea that it HAS to be moved makes me angry anyway. I'm angry that the slow but continuing deforestation of South America and the high north americas are going on and shrinking habitat of hundreds and thousands of native species ... just to suit man and man's needs. How long before we start moving into the sea?
I'm angry that our grandfathers and their great grandfathers and their greatgrandfathers didn't try to find a way to co-exist with nature instead of moving it out of the way. We're beginning only now to understand that it's possible to do so, but we're still far from doing so as a whole.

 

[Steel Tiger]

I'm angry that the poachers killed one of the last two remaining "wild" rhinos in that particular country. I get angry when I hear about pirate whaling and how international treaties are ignored by certian countries. I get angry when I hear about a wild predatory animal that hurt (or killed) a human being being killed itself instead of being moved hundreds or thousands of miles from it's home to be "safe". The idea that it HAS to be moved makes me angry anyway. I'm angry that the slow but continuing deforestation of South America and the high north americas are going on and shrinking habitat of hundreds and thousands of native species ... just to suit man and man's needs. How long before we start moving into the sea?
I'm angry that our grandfathers and their great grandfathers and their greatgrandfathers didn't try to find a way to co-exist with nature instead of moving it out of the way. We're beginning only now to understand that it's possible to do so, but we're still far from doing so as a whole.

I'm with you. These things make me angry too, and sad. But the problem is this does not got back only a few generations. Since the time humanity learned to bang the rocks together and make a blade, the natural environment has been modified. There is a lot of new age talk about how indigenous populations live in harmony with nature. Its a load of toss. what indigenous peoples did was create (generally inadvertantly) a balance between their destruction of nature and its regeneration by living in small communities.

Modification of the environment is how humans cope with a harsh world. We make it less harsh and suit us. Since the industrial revolution it has become more evident because of the vast and rapid inprovements in technology. But now we are developing technology that might actually us to utilise the natural resources without wholesale devastation. we just have to change our way of thinking, and not by that much either.

 

[DavidCC]

poaching endangered species is bad.

usually, roasting makes them taste better - save the poaching for endangered seafood.