Pioneertkd.com - An association dedicated to bringing the 'Martial' back into the art

[StuartA]

Thanks SageGhost.. I believe that as well.

A knock on effect if this becomes big is that some organisations will 'up their game' so it could have a wider effect still. I have seen this happen before, the book made this happen also.. so this may too, the the whole TKD community could benefit to some extent.. which is cool.

If you are reading this thread, even if its not your thing, please feel free to make any points or ask any questions, as we are really defining and sorting out everything so when its officially released, we have everything in order.

I spent over an hour last night on the phone discussing how best to impliment WTF guys, whilst retaining their KKW certification needs.

I spent 2 hours on the phone today discussing how the UKCC thing is going, how it would be implemeted for UK clubs as part of this org (no problem as I said in an earlier post) amongst other issues relating to both this new oranisation and my own club.

And this evening I spent another hour on the phone discussig the Ch'ang Hon side of things and issues relating to the association with a fellow Ch'ang hon instructor.

I am working hard at this to make it a decent proposition and beneificial organisation to its members and I really do appreciate any input you guys have that will help define any areas or give me different points of views - so post away.

Stuart

Ps. Terry, check your email

 

[terryl965]

Thanks SageGhost.. I believe that as well.

A knock on effect if this becomes big is that some organisations will 'up their game' so it could have a wider effect still. I have seen this happen before, the book made this happen also.. so this may too, the the whole TKD community could benefit to some extent.. which is cool.

If you are reading this thread, even if its not your thing, please feel free to make any points or ask any questions, as we are really defining and sorting out everything so when its officially released, we have everything in order.

I spent over an hour last night on the phone discussing how best to impliment WTF guys, whilst retaining their KKW certification needs.

I spent 2 hours on the phone today discussing how the UKCC thing is going, how it would be implemeted for UK clubs as part of this org (no problem as I said in an earlier post) amongst other issues relating to both this new oranisation and my own club.

And this evening I spent another hour on the phone discussig the Ch'ang Hon side of things and issues relating to the association with a fellow Ch'ang hon instructor.

I am working hard at this to make it a decent proposition and beneificial organisation to its members and I really do appreciate any input you guys have that will help define any areas or give me different points of views - so post away.

Stuart

Ps. Terry, check your email

I did just got home will work on it in the morning tired and had a long day. Talk soon.

 

[britcanbulldogtkd]

Hi All,
Maybe this is the correct response maybe its a new thread. This is all new to me as in me being a new member.
The concept regarding Pioneer.com is wonderful. ITF WTF TAGB all organisations practising a military discipline amongst many in the world. My own style (for use of a better word) is WTF
The point I would like to make that the recognition of belt or grade depening on organsation is not based on the skill level of the student but on politics and to me its politics that is ruining the art at all levels
A prime example is a couple of blackbelts not liking the way a club is run and setting up its own club taking a percentage of the membership with them. This causes animosity throughout especially if they new club links to the politcal body of the former club (hope this makes sense) An example of this as i remember is when the BTCB where awarded the olympic team decisions when everybody expected the BTC to get it. This caused one or two issues in the UK. and a lot of upheaval.
Personally I would love to see the politics removed and allow instructors and practioners to just train.
I love the sport side of WTF but it cant really exsist without the traditional side. and both must work as one.
Well thats about it

Bulldog

 

[StuartA]

The point I would like to make that the recognition of belt or grade depening on organsation is not based on the skill level of the student but on politics and to me its politics that is ruining the art at all levels

Not anymore, skill levels will be based on... er, skill levels.. once again!! :ultracool

 

[myusername]

This sounds very interesting Stuart. I am with the TAGB and currently only a yellow tag! However, I will watch with interest how this develops as I quite like the idea of your individual membership for 4th kups onwards that allows access to your training seminars. I'm very fortunate that my instuctor, though teaching the TAGB syllabus, is also very interested in the uncovering of practical self defence applications for our patterns and runs for the 4th kups in his school regular training sessions on pure self defence using TKD patterns. Combining these sessions with your group training sessions is something that I could really look forward to when I reach the required grade.

This seems a really good idea and is much needed.

Cheers

 

[terryl965]

Yes I think this is going to be great and there are alot of people geting ready for it.

 

[StuartA]

This sounds very interesting Stuart. I am with the TAGB and currently only a yellow tag! However, I will watch with interest how this develops as I quite like the idea of your individual membership for 4th kups onwards that allows access to your training seminars. I'm very fortunate that my instuctor, though teaching the TAGB syllabus, is also very interested in the uncovering of practical self defence applications for our patterns and runs for the 4th kups in his school regular training sessions on pure self defence using TKD patterns. Combining these sessions with your group training sessions is something that I could really look forward to when I reach the required grade.

This seems a really good idea and is much needed.

Cheers

Thanks.. can I ask who your instructor is? (I think I may know already)

Theres scope or whole clubs to join as well as individual members, even those that cant committ to the full sepctrum of what we are asking.

Stuart

 

[Jai]

Even though I am no longer involved in TKD this looks like something that has the general basis and ideas to turn TKD in general around and is something I would have been interested in. Best of luck with all this, it looks great.

 

[terryl965]

Even though I am no longer involved in TKD this looks like something that has the general basis and ideas to turn TKD in general around and is something I would have been interested in. Best of luck with all this, it looks great.

Thanks Jai

 

[myusername]

Thanks.. can I ask who your instructor is? (I think I may know already)

Theres scope or whole clubs to join as well as individual members, even those that cant committ to the full sepctrum of what we are asking.

Stuart

Hi Stuart, I've sent you a private message as I'm unsure whether he'd appreciate me posting his name on any forums, even though its all complimentary!

Cheers

 

[StuartA]

Hi Stuart, I've sent you a private message as I'm unsure whether he'd appreciate me posting his name on any forums, even though its all complimentary!

Cheers

Got it and replied.. cheers :yoda:

 

[terryl965]

I thought I would give this a bump since we have been talking about changes in the work and all, so have a look and make comments and we shall see what is said. I know certain people have been looking for this very thing for a long time and now we have something to grow upon.

 

[StuartA]

Quick update.. the association is starting to grow now we have things defined.

One of its founder members just completed an interview which I thought you may be interested in. (http://www.pioneertkd.com/news-daveinterview.html)
-----------------------------------------------

An interview with Dave Melton, 5th degree WTF, regarding
the Pioneer Tae Kwon Do Association
by Marek Handzel​

Marek: In some of your literature found on the Pioneer TKD Association website it is mentioned that the founders believe Tae Kwon do is “on a slippery slope and is losing its effectiveness as a martial art” . When you say that are you referring to the all forms of the art or only the WTF, for example? ​

Dave: It is in the mindset of the new students who know nothing about Tae Kwon Do mostly. It is not to put blame on a specific art necessarily, but when a student sees sport style of WTF or ITF, they think "that is Tae Kwon Do". Unfortunately, they do not see the martial side of it. However, it is also the responsibility of those teaching it to emphasize that sport is only a small part of TKD, and that the sport is NOT a substitute for self defense.​

Marek: Why do you feel this has happened - is it a natural process of dilution as something becomes popular and is this not a problem for all Martial Arts? ​

Dave: It is the mindset of the student that when they see something, they do not do their research before starting or making a judgement about it.​

Marek: Or has Taekwon do suffered more than most? ​

Dave: I have seen all styles suffer, but since TKD is arguably the most popular style of martial arts today, we see more watering down because we are exposed to it more often. ​

Marek: Do you believe that the Pioneer association can arrest this slide – or is it merely a ‘safe haven’ for like-minded practitioners? ​

Dave: I believe it is a safe haven, but there is no way anyone or any one organization can change the slide too much in say the next 10-15 years. When someone sees a potential way to make an easy living, they will take advantage of every opportunity even if it means selling out.​

Marek: Why have you limited the organization to TKD – or are there other associations similar to others in other arts that you can share ‘best practice’ with for example? ​

Dave: I cannot speak proficiently enough about other styles. TKD is what we have trained in and that is our specialty. I feel inviting other styles would mean watering down their style (or possibly vice versa) since Korean styles have fundamental differences in their practices than say Japanese styles.​

Marek: Why did you found a formal group? Could you not maintain standards and share ideas without the need for an official alliance? ​

Dave: Sure, we could have done it informally. However, by having a formal organization it gives credibility to the public and promotes growth for others to commit to our cause. ​

Marek: What do you ultimately wish to achieve as an organization? ​

Dave: Get back to the roots of the TKD pioneers. Keeping TKD as a well rounded martial art rather than just a sport. ​

Marek: When you say ‘martial’ - what does that mean to you? Is it even possible to run an ‘old fashioned’ type of school in this day and age of health & safety and rampant litigation? Has real Taekwon do gone underground? ​

Dave: "Martial" to me means warrior-like. That means everything starts with yourself - your spirit, your mentality. Without either of those, you cannot have true martial training. What does "old fashioned" mean? Obviously we cannot beat students with sticks or make put them in a dark room for a few days, but then again is that considered "old-fashioned". I run a very disciplined and rigid curriculum, yet we have pushups and situps as forms of incentive to stay focused and still keep safety as the focus. Then again, I have no clue how things were done 50 years ago so I just do what I think is best by keeping the students disciplined, respectful and training hard.​

Marek: Do you think it possible that your type of clubs will be the norm in the future? After all, if schools produce students unable to defend themselves properly when under pressure then they will naturally blame their teachers and look for instruction elsewhere won’t they? ​

Dave: No, but they will always be sought out. Most people will never have to defend themselves properly but more
importantly it is not just about the self defense. It is also about building the student to be a better person. ​

Marek: In your FAQ on the website there is a section where you state that you may run competitions “if and when the association grows large enough” Surely this is a slight contradiction as you would be encouraging the ‘sport’ element? ​

Dave: There is a difference between "encouraging" and "replace/substitute". When you see TKD schools (primarily WTF styles) training ONLY for tournament, then clearly that is wrong. However, TKD has evolved to include (but not limit to) sport, and competitions should be included as part of the art.​

Marek: If Pioneer grows and incorporates more schools in the future and for example gains a good reputation then how can standards be maintained? Surely you would just become ‘another’ group? ​

Dave: I do not believe we will just be another group UNLESS all or most other groups incorporate our standards. In which case we have achieved our goal. ​

 

[terryl965]

Yes it was a great interview for the association congrats

 

[Cirdan]

Sounds like a good initiative, TKD needs more of this.

You might want to rethink the "True gold does not fear the test of fire" line tho. Gold melts at fairly low temperatures, like in a common camp fire.

 

[terryl965]

Sounds like a good initiative, TKD needs more of this.

You might want to rethink the "True gold does not fear the test of fire" line tho. Gold melts at fairly low temperatures, like in a common camp fire.

Thank you for the feedback, that is something to llook at and how it will be precieved with some folks

 

[StuartA]

Sounds like a good initiative, TKD needs more of this.

You might want to rethink the "True gold does not fear the test of fire" line tho. Gold melts at fairly low temperatures, like in a common camp fire.

Yes... but it still gold! LOL

The quote means its really 24 karot, as opposed to much that looks like gold but when split/melted is a mixture of metals with little properties, hence it does not fear the test of fire as in all forms it still remains pure gold (which is pretty rare on planet earth)

Cheers,

Stuart