"Physically challenged" martial artists

[Ceicei]

I define "physically challenged" as individuals who are deaf, blind, wheelchair-bound, amputee, or with other assorted types of challenges. (I dislike the terms "disabled" or "impaired".)

If you have experiences teaching or working with martial artists having one or more of these challenges, share these experiences with us please.

If you are one of these martial artists with a challenge, let us know how you handled your training? What did you do to make it easier for your instructors/students/training partners?
Thank you.
Respectfully,
- Ceicei

 

[arnisador]

We've had much discussion of this before, for example:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=890
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1450
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1421

There are more--try Search! (Feel free to continue this thread too though!)

 

[tshadowchaser]

I have had to change some of the moves in forms because a student was physicly unable to preform the original move. I did/do make the student know what the original move was so that when he/she teaches it some day they can pass it on as it was . They have to be able to explain the move as well as do it.
Dealing with those that have hearing problems is a little different ( sparing and haveing them stop is sometimes a challange)
Those with learning problems have to be taken as individuals, heck they all do .

 

[Ceicei]

Originally posted by arnisador
We've had much discussion of this before, for example:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=890
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1450
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1421

There are more--try Search! (Feel free to continue this thread too though!)

Thank you for sharing these threads. They were very enlightening.

It didn't really answer fully my question, but it did give me some ideas of how others view/work with the physically challenged martial artists.

I am deaf. However, my dojo and instructors are terrific. All of my instructors know a little sign. One of my very first instructors eighteen years ago (he now is visiting instructor to our dojo) had learned sign well enough that he does interpret at some seminars.

- Ceicei

 

[arnisador]

I believe we have another self--identified deaf martial artist here (username, Deaf).

 

[Deaf]

Originally posted by arnisador
I believe we have another self--identified deaf martial artist here (username, Deaf).

:ninja: Dang...I've been caught!!


I have alot of experiences both as a student and as an instructor. I think the main problem for the deaf is the "oral teaching" part of many arts. Even with sign language, we still miss quite a bit. How in the world do you translate shiken haramitsu daikomyo into sign language?

I believe that is the main obstacle that is faced really in regards to the deaf community. Your thoughts Ceicei??

Deaf

 

[Master of Blades]

One of my training partners called Bennet has a disease where his Muscle slowly turns into bone. I'm not sure of the exact details of the disease, but I do know that if he tears a muscle or breaks a bone instead of the tissue doing the normal stuff everything just turns into bone. So we have to be very careful when doing stretching locks and sparring with him just incase. We dont in anyway go easy on him, hes a tough bastard, was in the army most of his life, boxed for Cambridge and so. Havnt seen him for a while because he is on some new medication but it should be cool. The good thing is that even though its a rare disease hes young, so by the time it will be starting to really effect him there should hopefuly be a cure

 

[Ceicei]

Originally posted by Deaf
:ninja: Dang...I've been caught!!


I have alot of experiences both as a student and as an instructor. I think the main problem for the deaf is the "oral teaching" part of many arts. Even with sign language, we still miss quite a bit. How in the world do you translate shiken haramitsu daikomyo into sign language?

I believe that is the main obstacle that is faced really in regards to the deaf community. Your thoughts Ceicei??

Deaf

Translation is definitely a problem.

It is easier with Kenpo Karate because it is English based. Even then to translate into true ASL (American Sign), it can be a challenge to sign "Raining Claw" and "Thrusting Salute".

My main peeve is when we do quick technique drills, it is sometimes hard to keep up when they say the technique names quickly (they aren't adept enough to sign fast yet). I have to be sure I catch it correctly. If I'm lost, I may look to my partner who will repeat the words or look over to another paired students to see what they are doing.

Other deaf martial artists locally that study different styles all have similar problems--it is lipreading the martial arts style terminology.

I guess there isn't a manual for martial arts related signed terms. You would think Gallaudet University [university geared for Deaf students based in Wash. D.C.] would have come up with something with martial arts or even just style specific if they already have manuals for computer/electronic terms, medical terms, etc.

- Ceicei

 

[Deaf]

Originally posted by Ceicei
Translation is definitely a problem.


I guess there isn't a manual for martial arts related signed terms. You would think Gallaudet University [university geared for Deaf students based in Wash. D.C.] would have come up with something with martial arts or even just style specific if they already have manuals for computer/electronic terms, medical terms, etc.

- Ceicei

That would be a daunting task to do! With soo many different martial art styles out there, different languages (Japanese, Korean, Chinese) as well. A very daunting task indeed.

I personally would just create your own signs for your particular style and then use thoses.

~Deaf~

 

[Nightingale]

I used to train with a guy who was deaf. He said he'd picked Kenpo because, besides liking the style, everything was taught in English. He came to us from a Korean school... can't remember if it was TKD or TSD, but in his words "Its almost impossible to lip read Korean when someone's shouting."

It would be nice if the Deaf community produced some manuals for martial artists. That way, it would be easier for instructors to learn to communicate with students who don't lip read easily... and lip reading isn't easy to begin with. Try it. Look at yourself in the mirror and say a bunch of rhyming words. Look how similar the lip movement is in each word.


If you have a physically challenged individual, probably the best course of action would be to ask them "do you need me to make any modifications in my classes to allow you to succeed? if so, what are they?" Don't make assumptions, because you may over or undercompensate.

 

[Ceicei]

Originally posted by Master of Blades
...but I do know that if he tears a muscle or breaks a bone instead of the tissue doing the normal stuff everything just turns into bone. So we have to be very careful when doing stretching locks and sparring with him just incase. We dont in anyway go easy on him, hes a tough bastard, was in the army most of his life, boxed for Cambridge and so. Havnt seen him for a while because he is on some new medication but it should be cool. The good thing is that even though its a rare disease hes young, so by the time it will be starting to really effect him there should hopefuly be a cure

That's an unusual disease. Considering martial arts is generally a contact activity, I'm surprised he didn't shy away from this. Perhaps martial arts is a double-edged sword for him. Not only is it risky with the calcificion of injuries, it probably also at the same time strengthens his body to withstand injuries better.

- Ceicei

 

[Ceicei]

Originally posted by Deaf
That would be a daunting task to do! With soo many different martial art styles out there, different languages (Japanese, Korean, Chinese) as well. A very daunting task indeed.

I personally would just create your own signs for your particular style and then use thoses.

~Deaf~

Good point, considering there are hundreds of styles within martial arts.

- Ceicei

 

[Ceicei]

Originally posted by nightingale8472
It would be nice if the Deaf community produced some manuals for martial artists. That way, it would be easier for instructors to learn to communicate with students who don't lip read easily...

Nightingale gave me an idea. Why don't we pool resources?

We have technology available--it isn't too complex any more. I have the equipment.

What is needed is a digital camera with ability to act as a camcorder or even just a plain simple camcorder. Just send the tape or memory card accompanied with a list of words on paper (to ensure proper spelling) and I can port it onto a cd or a dvd. There is software available to do subtitle and/or captions.

While videoing with the camcorder, just be sure to pause between sets of signs then repeat those sets a few times slowly. That will also help in making sure each sign set matches with the paper list. The titles of these will be put at the start of each set.

We could do one cd per style and that could become a sort of a library. With a cdrom-burner, it won't be difficult to make a few copies and then ship them back with the tape/memory card. The cds themselves only cost pennies (when bought in bulk) and the shipping costs.

The only major tasks would be taking the time to use the camcorder then sending me the tape or memory card and the time in porting over plus titling.

Maybe it could be a labor of love with just a couple of dollars to defray the cost.

- Ceicei

 

[Nightingale]

if you tape the signs, try to tape them over your own shoulder (so the viewer sees your hands the way the person signing sees their own hands)

I've used some sign videotapes where the person on the tape was facing me, and it was very difficult to copy them, because if you treat the tape like a mirror (their left is your right) you end up doing things backwards. Its easier if you can see what the signs look like to the person signing them, rather than to the person watching them.

does that make sense? I wish I could explain it better.

 

[Ceicei]

Originally posted by nightingale8472
if you tape the signs, try to tape them over your own shoulder (so the viewer sees your hands the way the person signing sees their own hands)

I've used some sign videotapes where the person on the tape was facing me, and it was very difficult to copy them, because if you treat the tape like a mirror (their left is your right) you end up doing things backwards. Its easier if you can see what the signs look like to the person signing them, rather than to the person watching them.

does that make sense? I wish I could explain it better.

Ah, "reverse" signs aren't really a problem. I'm left handed, so the issue of whether a sign should be done on the left or right hand is a moot point.

But you do have a point with the "over the shoulder" view. Perhaps doing the front view first a few times then an "over the shoulder" view afterwards might work well.

- Ceicei

 

[Nightingale]

I don't mean right handed vs left handed..... aren't many signs two handed?

what I meant is that when you're watching someone head on and mimicking them, you tend to mirror them... you move your right hand when they move their left, and move your left when they move their right, so everything turns out backwards.

 

[Ceicei]

Originally posted by nightingale8472
I don't mean right handed vs left handed..... aren't many signs two handed?

what I meant is that when you're watching someone head on and mimicking them, you tend to mirror them... you move your right hand when they move their left, and move your left when they move their right, so everything turns out backwards.

No, it wouldn't be "backwards". Basically, its similar to doing a kenpo technique on the opposite side. It's still the same technique....[even though on testing, generally done with the standard (non-mirrored) side rather than the opposite (mirrored) side.]

For most people, signing is done with the dominant hand (right side). Even if its done with the left as a dominant hand, the meaning is still the same.

I do think that even if a person learns mirror image at first, they will eventually start doing it on their better (or more dominant) hand as it would feel more comfortable once they become fluent.

- Ceicei

 

[Nightingale]

ooohhh... ok.

I think the people who were teaching me were all right handed. that explains it.

 

[arnisador]

Martial Signing:
http://www.martialsigning.com/news

There is also a story on this in the current (Nov. 2003) issue of Black Belt.

The idea appears to be DKI methods that are applied to signs. That is, the physical movements of the ASL sign sequence for some phrase are interpreted as martial arts techniques involving pressure points, just as if the signs were a kata and one was finding bunkai from it.

It seems a bit forced to me, but of course it's hard to tell from pictures.

 

[MA-Caver]

Reading the article I was thinking that when the police show up after a deaf person takes down an attacker (utilizing those techniques) on the street, he/she could (write) "But, I was just talking to him, then he fell down." :lol:
:idea: Seems to me that CeiCei, Deaf and Matt Hayat might want to put their heads and hands together and write a book on it.
As far as translation goes for the non-engrish words in MA, for non Kenpo styles, the only thing I can think of is to find the closest engrish translation of those words then apply the briefest but most accurate sign to them.
And seeing how ASL is a continually growing language there's no law against creating new signs to apply to MA.