Path vs. Line

[kenposikh]

Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo
Thank you Amrik, for having the good sense to see this.


Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

I just say it as I see it Clyde.

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by WhiteTiger
This sounds like circular motion vs. linear motion. You AK guys seem to have no end of complex and flowery definitions for otherwise simple concepts. Respectully

Yes, and no. Mr. Parker was a scientific "splitter", meaning when he needed another term to pin point exactly what he was referring to...he would develop another term thus the large vocabulary of terms (understanding them is another problem).

What is unique here is that both line and path need not be "ONLY" linear or circular but could be either by description depending upon the particular circumstances. A "line", usually is a course that is much smaller than a "path". Each has usefulness.

One can not "understand" all of the American Kenpo Terminology just from the literal sound of the words... they often times have multi dimensional meanings and can easily be confused if taken literally without back up data.

:asian:

 

[Michael Billings]

I have been doing EPAK now for about 17 years, with 7 of Chinese Kenpo before that. I STILL don't know all the terms. Heard a great Concept the other day - "Stablized Assistance", coined by Howard Silva. The monentary assistance in balance as you transfer weight into an opponent, with or following a strike, e.g. Hooking Wings, you are MOMENTARILY assisted by the arms hooking or striking as you balance for the kick. Just another Kenpoese term I liked.

It is always evolving and I am sure GD7 has coined a term or two. Like maybe "Kenpo Tools?" They have been there for us to use, but never articulated as a SET OF TOOLS to assist us in the analyzation of Motion.

Shoot, it ain't complicated, it is sophisticated. Sophistication is just basics compounded. Clear as mud to a non-kenpoist, but it makes sense the higher you get.

-Michael

 

[MJS]

Reviving this thread.

Mike

 

[Doc]

Has anyone considered that a "Path" is simply a wide "line?" They are both geometrical ideas that simply define the value of essentially the same thing. Just a thought.

 

[mj-hi-yah]

Has anyone considered that a "Path" is simply a wide "line?" They are both geometrical ideas that simply define the value of essentially the same thing. Just a thought.

Yes I think of it that way, but I like the delineation as it gives students more precise vocabulary to deepen their understanding. I think it is easy for most new students to understand how to, for example, throw a punch following a narrow line, but by teaching them to, when appropriate, follow the widened path by changing weapons to a forearm for example, when appropriate, increases the likelihood of a successful strike, as since mentioned earlier in this thread the margin of error is greater when following a narrow line. :asian:

 

[Doc]

Yes, and no. Mr. Parker was a scientific "splitter", meaning when he needed another term to pin point exactly what he was referring to...he would develop another term thus the large vocabulary of terms (understanding them is another problem).

What is unique here is that both line and path need not be "ONLY" linear or circular but could be either by description depending upon the particular circumstances. A "line", usually is a course that is much smaller than a "path". Each has usefulness.

One can not "understand" all of the American Kenpo Terminology just from the literal sound of the words... they often times have multi dimensional meanings and can easily be confused if taken literally without back up data.

:asian:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever!

 

[kenpoworks]

Paths and lines...Paths generally more protection....Lines generally more penatration......Paths more "margin for error"...Lines more accuracy.
I have found from personal experience that Paths work for protection and Lines for attacking... I have tried to embrace the "Path of action Theory" is better than the Line of action..but in actual situations I have felt a greater degree of control (both physiologicaly as well as physcologically) when using accurate, fast hard Lines of attack eg knuckles and point of elbow as opposed to the length of the forearm.
Rich

 

[Doc]

Paths and lines...Paths generally more protection....Lines generally more penatration......Paths more "margin for error"...Lines more accuracy.
I have found from personal experience that Paths work for protection and Lines for attacking... I have tried to embrace the "Path of action Theory" is better than the Line of action..but in actual situations I have felt a greater degree of control (both physiologicaly as well as physcologically) when using accurate, fast hard Lines of attack eg knuckles and point of elbow as opposed to the length of the forearm.
Rich

Makes sense to me China. The rest is a nice intellectual exercise that has nothing to do with actually learning how to make them function in the real world. Much better for a couple of old fat guys sitting around , than those learning how to actually do something at the moment.

 

[kenpoworks]

Hey Doc,
I have always rambled on (as my students will testify), but the disturbing thing is I am starting to do it online....there's no hope is there...it's all down hill from here.
...<<The rest is a nice intellectual exercise that has nothing to do with actually learning how to make them function in the real world>>..You can read minds can't you?
Old Fat guys......I know thats not a reference to us!
Your "old china"

 

[Doc]

Hey Doc,
I have always rambled on (as my students will testify), but the disturbing thing is I am starting to do it online....there's no hope is there...it's all down hill from here.
...<<The rest is a nice intellectual exercise that has nothing to do with actually learning how to make them function in the real world>>..You can read minds can't you?
Old Fat guys......I know thats not a reference to us!
Your "old china"

I sincerely apologize for using the words "old," and "fat" in the same sentence. I should know better, and no you don't qualify. Myself however, is another story China.

 

[Making the Journey]

This sounds like circular motion vs. linear motion. You AK guys seem to have not end of complex and flowery definitions for otherwise simple concepts.

Respectully

A Linear move is only a move made up of very minute circles... Just like we think of the ground to be linear sometimes, it's really on big circle... everything moves in a cirle<< think about that.. it'll change the perspective on alot

 

[Doc]

A Linear move is only a move made up of very minute circles... Just like we think of the ground to be linear sometimes, it's really on big circle... everything moves in a cirle<< think about that.. it'll change the perspective on alot

I think you have it backwards sir. Linear movements are actually made up of very small segments of very large circles.

 

[Kenpodoc]

A Linear move is only a move made up of very minute circles... Just like we think of the ground to be linear sometimes, it's really on big circle... everything moves in a cirle<< think about that.. it'll change the perspective on alot

All of our joints move in a circular fashion, but depending upon the scale one evaluates movement the weapon can move in essentially a linear manner. Unfortunately this is just the overintellecualism that Kenpo is fond of. Line and Path just refer to the relative width of the striking portion of the body. Circular and linear motion refer to the relative geometrical path of the motion with reference to the weapon. Some movements are more effective than others in certain situations. Depending on the situation, even less effective movements may be effective enough to allow us to squabble over what is best. In my opinion good Kenpo is a mixture of linear and circular, line of action and path of action. The devil is in the details and learning and performing the action that most likely will fullfill your needs.

Currently I'm just trying to learn to make the techniques work as I've been taught them without having to change much regardless of the size of the attacker and the intensity of the attack. The system presents a large variety of linear, circular, path of action and line of action examples to teach me the basics. When something goes wrong I've learned to adjust, regulate, graft, etc but now I want to learn to make the techniques work for me rather than my having to change due to the little failures that crop up in my technical ability.

Respectfully,

Jeff

 

[Michael Billings]

All of our joints move in a circular fashion, but depending upon the scale one evaluates movement the weapon can move in essentially a linear manner. Unfortunately this is just the overintellecualism that Kenpo is fond of. Line and Path just refer to the relative width of the striking portion of the body. Circular and linear motion refer to the relative geometrical path of the motion with reference to the weapon. Some movements are more effective than others in certain situations. Depending on the situation, even less effective movements may be effective enough to allow us to squabble over what is best. In my opinion good Kenpo is a mixture of linear and circular, line of action and path of action. The devil is in the details and learning and performing the action that most likely will fullfill your needs.

Currently I'm just trying to learn to make the techniques work as I've been taught them without having to change much regardless of the size of the attacker and the intensity of the attack. The system presents a large variety of linear, circular, path of action and line of action examples to teach me the basics. When something goes wrong I've learned to adjust, regulate, graft, etc but now I want to learn to make the techniques work for me rather than my having to change due to the little failures that crop up in my technical ability.

Respectfully,

Jeff

Good luck in your ongoing search for answers ... (it only gets better).

Segments of Circles=arcs to me and could be a path of motion or line of motion contingent on the natural weapon, method of execution, etc. Now if you connect the radii or go linearly from one end of the arc to the other end of an arc, it could still be a path or a line contingent on weapon and how executed. Margin of error and whether you are STRIKING <as all upper belts should be> or whether you are BLOCKING.can be factors in deciding whether you utilized a path or line of motion.

Now what was the question again ..... :idunno:

-Michael