Pak Mei Pai forms

[VPT]

How we utilise the 'springing' idea is exactly as displayed in the video: break the opponent's structure to displace them, while using instant relaxation to reverse the movement, retaining and regenerating momentum to strike right back, most preferably using even the same hand that did the first movement.

I don't think our lineage uses that cutting/hooking technique in the way displayed. It' just kind of redundant since you could basically just grab the arm and pull/snatch, then punch again using the same principle as described above.

I guess this is sorts of the principle you are referring to? Not exactly the same 1:1 I guess, but I chose to put up a clip with the most parsimony I could come up with. (14m 46s onward.)

See, here's the difference with Bak Mei and many other styles, including Jow Ga and even karate. The main principle to achieve above kind of effect is transversal movement, i.e. twisting action from waist, rotation of spine and shoulders plus all the other (body) parts. The pulling movement (towards one's side/waist) reinforces the punching movement, and it's a very sound, effective and reliable principle. Bak Mei does things somewhat differently, however. We learn first to pull/suck/swallow in using sagittal flexion. That's our meat and potatoes, and only after we've got that down we add rotation from the hips and waist. That bow-unbow flexion-extension allows us to use the same hand in two techniques in quick succession. Learning and training these two things in conjunction is the core content of Gau Bou Tui, our "signature" form.

I'm not saying this is a better way; in fact, since it's intricate, hard to learn and unreliable for a long time before you can handle it, the transversal action might be even better (and that's why it's likely more common and widely spread). But ours can be... scary.

 

[JowGaWolf]

How we utilise the 'springing' idea is exactly as displayed in the video: break the opponent's structure to displace them, while using instant relaxation to reverse the movement, retaining and regenerating momentum to strike right back, most preferably using even the same hand that did the first movement.

I don't think our lineage uses that cutting/hooking technique in the way displayed. It' just kind of redundant since you could basically just grab the arm and pull/snatch, then punch again using the same principle as described above.

I guess this is sorts of the principle you are referring to? Not exactly the same 1:1 I guess, but I chose to put up a clip with the most parsimony I could come up with. (14m 46s onward.)

See, here's the difference with Bak Mei and many other styles, including Jow Ga and even karate. The main principle to achieve above kind of effect is transversal movement, i.e. twisting action from waist, rotation of spine and shoulders plus all the other (body) parts. The pulling movement (towards one's side/waist) reinforces the punching movement, and it's a very sound, effective and reliable principle. Bak Mei does things somewhat differently, however. We learn first to pull/suck/swallow in using sagittal flexion. That's our meat and potatoes, and only after we've got that down we add rotation from the hips and waist. That bow-unbow flexion-extension allows us to use the same hand in two techniques in quick succession. Learning and training these two things in conjunction is the core content of Gau Bou Tui, our "signature" form.

I'm not saying this is a better way; in fact, since it's intricate, hard to learn and unreliable for a long time before you can handle it, the transversal action might be even better (and that's why it's likely more common and widely spread). But ours can be... scary.

Update from my Sifu. There's no Bak Mei in Jow Ga. I was told to focus on the differences and not the similarities between the 2 systems. I haven't been able to watch the entire video that you posted, but can't help to notice the similarities in some of the techniques. My guess that the similarities that I'm seeing are probably from the same source.

The technique at 31:20 is a similar technique that we use, but we use it from a punch. In reality the punch, or palm up is insignificant because the technique it self is to counter /prevent someone from securing a grab. From what I've seen so far it looks like I'll get a chance to learn some more applications for techniques that I already know which is awesome. The technique at 14:46 looks just like what we do except we aren't taught to grab. It doesn't mean that we can't or that it's wrong to do so, it just means that we aren't taught that way. 14:46 looks like a different application of the technique that we use. For us that one technique is taught as 2 separate techniques. The first is technique is to break the grab and it follows with a different combination. The second technique which is the grab and punch is something that we train separately. I never thought about putting those techniques together.. Awesome thanks.

 

[bak_mei_jr]

Is it this idea you are referring to?

Hi. This video seems to suggest chum kiu is a specific move. Chum is actually a concept (kinda like a sinking energy) used to generate power at close range and very critical to Bak Mei. Unfortunately this happens a lot in traditional styles where the concepts or principles of a system are taught as specific moves - the twelve bridge hands of Hung Ga are notorious for this.

 

[VPT]

Hi. This video seems to suggest chum kiu is a specific move. Chum is actually a concept (kinda like a sinking energy) used to generate power at close range and very critical to Bak Mei. Unfortunately this happens a lot in traditional styles where the concepts or principles of a system are taught as specific moves - the twelve bridge hands of Hung Ga are notorious for this.

Fau-Cam-Tan-Tou is ubiquitous in Hakka and Fujian arts and not limited to Bak Mei only. AFAIK, his lineage simply calls the last technique from the sequence after the first three Mo kiu "Cam kiu". (3x Mo kiu - Sook sau - Bui kim - Cam kiu) I do there simply just another Sook sau, but it's not really a biggie.