Pain in training

[JowGaWolf]

for many of the people i train with the answer is close to zero, they want to float through a class with only the bare minimum of contact

I think this is a bleed over from parental concerns and marketing. Most parents don't want their kids to be hurt and as a result the Martial school will market "Safety" Somewhere during the marketing of Martial arts, it changed from "come get your bruises" to "come improve your self-esteem"

If you look at most martial arts advertisement out there, it's less about fighting and physical self-defense and conditioning. These days it's about about discipline and behavior changes.

 

[pgsmith]

If you look at most martial arts advertisement out there, it's less about fighting and physical self-defense and conditioning. These days it's about about discipline and behavior changes

Of course it is, because this is more in line with what most people want. If you want to make money, you have to give the people what they want to spend their money on.
There are still a great many more schools that teach actual physical martial arts than there used to be. However, with the ever increasing number of martial arts schools that need to make money, there just seems to be less of the traditional type of training around.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Pain is my old friend. It's a friendship that has to be managed. Some pain is beneficial, some pain is dangerous. Some pain requires you to change to understand that is helpful more than harmful. In older age, the absence of pain means death. I'll take the pain.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Of course it is, because this is more in line with what most people want. If you want to make money, you have to give the people what they want to spend their money on.
There are still a great many more schools that teach actual physical martial arts than there used to be. However, with the ever increasing number of martial arts schools that need to make money, there just seems to be less of the traditional type of training around.

Agreed, though I don’t think it’s because more of the schools need to make money. It’s because they’re reaching for a wider audience, overall.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

 

[Finlay]

I was listening to Nigrl Ben interview a while ago. He said he always thought of himself as a fighter rather than a boxer. When he thought of himself as a boxer getting punched hurt more because boxers try not to get punched.

Similar thing I guess would be different people approach to sparring. Some people want to hit and other don' want to get hit

I imagine that if you play not to get hit then you could get to a point where hits register as pain even though they are not that hard. You put so much into yelling yourself that getting hit is bad and should be avoided that your pschye changes

 

[MA_Student]

I think this is a bleed over from parental concerns and marketing. Most parents don't want their kids to be hurt and as a result the Martial school will market "Safety" Somewhere during the marketing of Martial arts, it changed from "come get your bruises" to "come improve your self-esteem"

If you look at most martial arts advertisement out there, it's less about fighting and physical self-defense and conditioning. These days it's about about discipline and behavior changes.

So it should. Kids shouldn't be leaving class with bruises everywhere and bleeding Noses after every class. Yeah sure it'll happen at times it shouldn't be a regular thing at all. I know a lot of older guys like to think people were tougher back then and maybe they were maybe they weren't but personally I want to have a functional body when I'm older and not barely able to walk or talk because of a bunch of abuse I've taken over the years.

Even mma fighters now are realising that 100% sparring is stupid. Guys like jamie Varner , cowboy cerone and forest griffin have said that kind of training is not good for you

 

[dunc]

I believe that pain is a key part of one's martial arts training

You have to learn the difference between a) pain, pressure, discomfort etc that can be accepted and shouldn't stop you, and b) pain or other signals that are a precursor to injury and therefore should cause you to stop, defend, change what you're doing etc

It's often a surprise to me how big an impact (a) above can have on some experienced martial artists and it is relatively straightforward to toughen up so one isn't exposed to this weakness

 

[JowGaWolf]

Kids shouldn't be leaving class with bruises everywhere and bleeding Noses after every class.

They should have bruises in the right spots but not bleeding noses. Bruising is a normal part of conditioning and when it's done correctly there shouldn't be sever bruising. We let parents and adults know this right up front, because it's impossible for a newbie to train with a conditioned student and not be bruise. If you aren't conditioned then you will get bruises if you do blocking drills with me. You will get bruised even if I try to not give you bruises.

Conditioning is actually better for kids because they are at an age where they heal fast. If kids play football then they get bruised. If they wrestle then they get bruised. If they ride a skateboard and fall they get bruised. If a child plays soccer, then they will get bruised. There are other activities that children do and they will get bruised especially if they are really into that activity. For example, kids who ride bikes and learn how to do stunts on their bikes. I think it's unrealistic to think that a child is going to participate in a combat activity and not be bruised. Martial arts should not be a "pillow activity" or a "boy in the bubble" activity.

It's just better to be honest about that with people about what martial art activities are instead of creating a misconception.

Yeah sure it'll happen at times it shouldn't be a regular thing at all.

Bruising is regular in martial arts. It's just not a daily thing.

I know a lot of older guys like to think people were tougher back then and maybe they were maybe they weren't but personally I want to have a functional body when I'm older and not barely able to walk or talk because of a bunch of abuse I've taken over the years

You are confusing bruising your body with abusing your body. Martial Arts exercises should always improve the body's conditioning. It should never be so harsh that it abuses the body and tear it down like an abandon building. That isn't productive training and this is where your body will begin to suffer.

If the state of your body is getting worst because of training then your training methods are wrong. When done correctly training makes you better not worse.

Even mma fighters now are realising that 100% sparring is stupid. Guys like jamie Varner , cowboy cerone and forest griffin have said that kind of training is not good for you

Martial artist have been saying that all along. This isn't nothing new. Now they understand what traditional martial artists have been saying all along. From a military point of view. It's not good to have your soldiers always banged up because they will never be in condition for war. MMA was just slow to learn.

 

[Saheim]

As others said - ya gotta know the difference between "took a thump pain" and "I'm about to be out of training for 12 weeks pain". There is nothing shameful about listening to your body's warning and preventing legitimate injury. However if someone is worried about some "got thumped pain", I'd have to wonder if they had chosen the right hobby.

On a side note - I think it is a good idea to know what a shot to the face feels like BEFORE it is being delivered by someone who really wants to hurt you or your people.

It is a balancing act. Me and other people I know have gone str8 from class to the E.R. that cost a lot of down time and really slows your development as a MAist. On the other end, training like they are scared of getting hurt ALSO slows someone's development. Gotta find that middle path.

 

[pgsmith]

I was listening to Nigrl Ben interview a while ago. He said he always thought of himself as a fighter rather than a boxer. When he thought of himself as a boxer getting punched hurt more because boxers try not to get punched.

Similar thing I guess would be different people approach to sparring. Some people want to hit and other don' want to get hit

I imagine that if you play not to get hit then you could get to a point where hits register as pain even though they are not that hard. You put so much into yelling yourself that getting hit is bad and should be avoided that your pschye changes

That's very true, in my opinion. I train in a traditional Japanese sword art. Paired practice has you swinging wooden swords at each other, and it's really bad if you get hit. The pain is not that bad really, and it generally only leaves bumps and bruises. However, it SEEMS really bad at the time because you are training to not get hit, since being hit by an actual sword would immediately end the fight.

 

[wingerjim]

i am interest to hear what other people think of pain and discomfort in training

in my experience attitudes have gone right the way across the scale from overly macho to down right wimpy

Something i have heard, movies quotes included:

"pain lets you know you are not dead yet"

"pain is weakness leaving the body"

"don't hurt me" (3rd degree black belt sparring with lower grade)

'no matter what the purpose of the art is, my purpose is to look after my body"


"you need to be comfortable with hurting people"

the list goes on but I am sure you get the picture by now.

All replies welcome

Well there is discomfort and there is pain. I study Wing Chun and the stance can be down right unconformable, especially at the beginning and when doing it for several hours. This is not a bad thing but pain can be anything from discomfort to something within the body is broken, so pain is not necessarily a good thing. Discomfort to me is what Kung Fu is all about....learning to be comfortable after going through discomfort, also called learning and growing. Down right pain, unless temporary because I get punched and kicked often, is not a good thing.

 

[Buka]

When you train a long time, you don't remember the pains of before, you remember all the wonderful things. You remember the people, the things you've learned, the things you've taught, the wins, the losses, the struggle itself.

Sometimes things hurt, but we heal pretty well, us humans do. Let's all keep going, even when we say ouch.

 

[Balrog]

There is a difference in pain and discomfort.
If one has never experienced any real discomfort they tend to perceive it as pain.
In training there will be quite a bit of discomfort.

Agreed.

There is a saying: Pain is the best teacher, but nobody wants to attend his classes.

 

[jobo]

i reached majority, in the 1980s, which was a strange decade for any number of reasons, but particularly, for it being the first time fitness became main stream, before that it was considered a fringe and slightly odd pass time. The mantra was " no pain no gain" and whilst that is most definitely a trueism, there were a lot of examples of people taking it far to far. And as a result there are a lot of 50 odd year olds walking round with chronic bad backs jiggered knees, frozen shoulders ETAL. And worse their treasured physique are long gone, but they are still paying the price for their youthful excess.

this decade seems to have a different view, there seems any number of people who won't inflict discomfort let a lone pain on themselves . Or just default to chemical assistant to get the physique/ strengh they require.

you need to stimulate the muscles, which is painful, you need to dig in and knock out the extra reps, when it hurts like hell, what you shouldn't be doing is destroying yourself to get there. You have to make your body last till your 80 or 90 , which it won't do, if you wreck it in your twenties