Origin of Uechi Ryu Karate?

[Same Trick]

Continue from my previous post -
An interesting observation can be in a somewhat famous filming of Chinese martial arts performances in Taiwan filmed in the 1960’s ? Kanei Uechi is seen sitting at the head table as an honorary guest.

Lots of the Chinese martial arts in that performance came from martial artists who were connected to the Nanjing Central Martial Arts Academy of the 1920’s

Maybe this telling that Kanei’s father Kanbun Uechi from his operating a martial arts school in Nanjing during that time was well known and respected in the overall martial arts community of Nanjing ?

 

[opr1945]

Found this old thread on an off shoot of Uechi ryu. anyone have newer information/opinion?

Kou Bu Ryu Karate??

Anyone familiar with this? My daughters Martial Arts Center, teaches predominately Korean arts, including TKD (which she is taking), Hapkido, etc. In addition, they teach a traditional Okinawan Karate they call Kou Bu Ryu. Upon trying to find out more about this, mainly out of just plain...

www.martialtalk.com

 

[Buka]

I reached out to Jay Salhanick and Bob Campbell. This is what I got….

“Dear Jay and Otto,

Good morning, thank you Otto for your important questions, respectfully, please note my replies are based on over 51 years of research coupled with my membership of 30 years in the Royal Asiatic Society Hong Kong Branch.

There never was and there is zero proof that the Chinese martial art style called Pwangainoon, ever existed. This word cannot be found in any major or minor Chinese dialect.

I am now traveling around New England on a Karate holiday so my apologies for this short reply. However, as I told Jay, Otto, I will reply in greater details in the coming days. Your questions are always most welcome.

Best regards, Stay safe,
Bob/Student for Life in the Martial Arts.”


When Bob gets back to me with greater details I’ll post his reply.

 

[hoshin1600]

Found this old thread on an off shoot of Uechi ryu. anyone have newer information/opinion?

Kou Bu Ryu Karate??

Anyone familiar with this? My daughters Martial Arts Center, teaches predominately Korean arts, including TKD (which she is taking), Hapkido, etc. In addition, they teach a traditional Okinawan Karate they call Kou Bu Ryu. Upon trying to find out more about this, mainly out of just plain...

www.martialtalk.com

I have no knowledge of the Kou Bu ryu school. But the other linked thread asked the question on why they would have broken away from the main line uechi ryu organization.
Simple answer .. politics.
Longer answer: short disclaimer, this is from my own observations snd conversations during this time period. Ok here goes.... after Kanei Uechi died his son Kanmei Uechi inherited the role of the head of the organization. Kanmei obviously started to try and run the organization but for whatever reason senior students didn't take a shine to him. Some had been training since he was in diapers. So there was push back against Kanmei. Kanmei pushed back with the fact that Uechi is his last name and he forbid others to use that name if they were not going to be part of his organization. Thus all of the groups who chose to not join (and there were many) started creating new style names. This was early to mid 1990's. After about 10 years wounds began to heal and factions started to come back together. attrition was also a factor as the most senior students started to pass away including Kanmei himself not that long ago.

 

[Hot Lunch]

Kanmei pushed back with the fact that Uechi is his last name and he forbid others to use that name if they were not going to be part of his organization. Thus all of the groups who chose to not join (and there were many) started creating new style names.

I'm curious as to why none of those students ignored him and used Uechi-ryu anyway. Unless he had it trademarked, there'd be nothing he could do about it.

 

[hoshin1600]

I'm curious as to why none of those students ignored him and used Uechi-ryu anyway. Unless he had it trademarked, there'd be nothing he could do about it.

Because it's Okinawa not America. Your viewing it from a western culture view point where legal is a thing. I would assume for them its more like a family matter. If uncle Charlie says don't do something you don't do it out of respect. Your going to see him next week at the family gathering and don't need the drama.

 

[Hot Lunch]

Because it's Okinawa not America. Your viewing it from a western culture view point where legal is a thing.

There's also a precedent for this. A Far East Asian one, for that matter: Soo Bahk Do. No entity outside of Moo Duk Kwan can call their art Soo Bahk Do, because Hwang Kee had it trademarked.

 

[isshinryuronin]

There's also a precedent for this. A Far East Asian one, for that matter: Soo Bahk Do. No entity outside of Moo Duk Kwan can call their art Soo Bahk Do, because Hwang Kee had it trademarked.

Okinawa is not Korea either. It's only 466 square miles in size, about half the size of Orange County, California. The population is only 145,000. Most of the masters there not only know each other, many share some sort of familial relationship. It's a very laid-back place.

 

[Same Trick]

I reached out to Jay Salhanick and Bob Campbell. This is what I got….

“Dear Jay and Otto,

Good morning, thank you Otto for your important questions, respectfully, please note my replies are based on over 51 years of research coupled with my membership of 30 years in the Royal Asiatic Society Hong Kong Branch.

There never was and there is zero proof that the Chinese martial art style called Pwangainoon, ever existed. This word cannot be found in any major or minor Chinese dialect.

I am now traveling around New England on a Karate holiday so my apologies for this short reply. However, as I told Jay, Otto, I will reply in greater details in the coming days. Your questions are always most welcome.

Best regards, Stay safe,
Bob/Student for Life in the Martial Arts.”


When Bob gets back to me with greater details I’ll post his reply.

Spelling it “pwangainoon” probably make the research a bit more difficult, the “pwan” part usually spell skip the W so it’s “pan” - ban - which translates to English as “Half”.
That’s the easy part. “Gai” and “Noon” more tricky.
The name Pangainoon is probably a loose mix of local Okinawan and local Fujianese dialects as heard by Japanese and possibly American ears, and so it’s untraceable.

My first taijiquan/xingyiquan teacher back in Sweden called the specific footwork found in xingyiquan “bamboo” step, but had no good explanation to what bamboo had to do with it, the correct name as I learned later is “ban-bu” meaning “half step”

 

[Same Trick]

I have no knowledge of the Kou Bu ryu school. But the other linked thread asked the question on why they would have broken away from the main line uechi ryu organization.
Simple answer .. politics.
Longer answer: short disclaimer, this is from my own observations snd conversations during this time period. Ok here goes.... after Kanei Uechi died his son Kanmei Uechi inherited the role of the head of the organization. Kanmei obviously started to try and run the organization but for whatever reason senior students didn't take a shine to him. Some had been training since he was in diapers. So there was push back against Kanmei. Kanmei pushed back with the fact that Uechi is his last name and he forbid others to use that name if they were not going to be part of his organization. Thus all of the groups who chose to not join (and there were many) started creating new style names. This was early to mid 1990's. After about 10 years wounds began to heal and factions started to come back together. attrition was also a factor as the most senior students started to pass away including Kanmei himself not that long ago.

In 1988 I was in Okinawa, I had found out about Uechi-ryu and wanted to have a look, I took the bus from Naha to the smaller town(I forgotten the name of it) where the Uechi-ryu honbu dojo was/(still is?) located. I arrived at noon time and there was no activity, a young boy approached me from the house and signaled for me to follow him up some stairs to the 2nd floor of the house, he slides open the door and point toward an old man laying on a bed in the dark room, I instantly feel it’s not appropriate for me to be up there peeking into that room at the person in the bed so I show the boy that we should get down from there.
down again on the ground a man comes along asking(in English) what I’m doing there, I explain why my visit and the man ask me to come back in the evening when class begins.

When back there in the evening and inside the dojo, I feel the atmosphere is tense almost a little hostile/agressive, if it was because my “incident” earlier in the day, or tensions within the dojo simmering, or maybe it was just the usual mood of the dojo, I don’t know.

Anyway I was already training at a Goju-ryu dojo in Naha and had just wanted to see something about Uechi-ryu.

 

[Hot Lunch]

Okinawa is not Korea either. It's only 466 square miles in size, about half the size of Orange County, California. The population is only 145,000. Most of the masters there not only know each other, many share some sort of familial relationship. It's a very laid-back place.

Except now the logic is that you know for a fact that Okinawans respect claims to names without the need to register trademarks because they're not Wester or Korean. That doesn't hold.

 

[opr1945]

Interesting. So, in essence, Kou Bu ryu school (ko Bu Ryu, Koubu ryu or Kobu ryu) is basically Uechi Ryu with a different name and perhaps am few changes?

 

[Hot Lunch]

Okinawa is not Korea either.

Also, this is moving the goalpost. The original claim that I was thinking in a Western mindset (i.e., the need for legal intervention), and I brought up Soo Bahk Do to debunk that.

 

[Same Trick]

Also, this is moving the goalpost. The original claim that I was thinking in a Western mindset (i.e., the need for legal intervention), and I brought up Soo Bahk Do to debunk that.

I don’t know what “so back doo” and “mo du kwan” mean, but I guess they are not family names ?

So your original question was why students who didn’t got along with Uechi dropped the name Uechi-ryu ?- well the easy answer can be - because they didn’t get along with Uechi !? Another quite easy conclusion can be - even if one don’t get along one show respect for the family and it’s name by not using it when asked to not use it ?



This doesn’t have to do anything with western/eastern mindset, just common sense

 

[opr1945]

Okinawa is not Korea either. It's only 466 square miles in size, about half the size of Orange County, California. The population is only 145,000. Most of the masters there not only know each other, many share some sort of familial relationship. It's a very laid-back place.

wikipeadia says population 1,457,162 people and 880 sq. miles.

Okinawa Prefecture
Prefecture of Japan

pref.okinawa.lg.jp
Okinawa Prefecture is the southernmost and westernmost prefecture of Japan. It has a population of 1,457,162 and a geographic area of 2,281 km2. Wikipedia

• Capital: Naha
• Population: 1.5 million

To use the calculator, place your cursor in the desired unit field and write a number.The calculator will automatically convert your number and display the result in the other unit fields.If needed use the dot "." as the decimal separator.

Square Kilometers
2281 km2
Square Miles
880.69 mi2

 

[isshinryuronin]

wikipeadia says population 1,457,162 people and 880 sq. miles.

Okinawa Prefecture
Prefecture of Japan

pref.okinawa.lg.jp
Okinawa Prefecture is the southernmost and westernmost prefecture of Japan. It has a population of 1,457,162 and a geographic area of 2,281 km2. Wikipedia

• Capital: Naha
• Population: 1.5 million

To use the calculator, place your cursor in the desired unit field and write a number.The calculator will automatically convert your number and display the result in the other unit fields.If needed use the dot "." as the decimal separator.

Square Kilometers
2281 km2
Square Miles
880.69 mi2

The size figure I used pertained to the main island only, unbeknownst to me. And the population number, well, I missed a "0." I apologize to all for the inaccuracies. My normally conscientious brain took a short vacation that night. The point of my post I think still holds true, unaffected by my numerical errors.

 

[isshinryuronin]

wikipeadia says population 1,457,162 people and 880 sq. miles.

Okinawa Prefecture
Prefecture of Japan

pref.okinawa.lg.jp
Okinawa Prefecture is the southernmost and westernmost prefecture of Japan. It has a population of 1,457,162 and a geographic area of 2,281 km2. Wikipedia

• Capital: Naha
• Population: 1.5 million

To use the calculator, place your cursor in the desired unit field and write a number.The calculator will automatically convert your number and display the result in the other unit fields.If needed use the dot "." as the decimal separator.

Square Kilometers
2281 km2
Square Miles
880.69 mi2

The size figure I used pertained to the main island only, unbeknownst to me. And the population number, well, I missed a "0." I apologize for the inaccuracies.

 

[opr1945]

It happens to all of us.....at some time and someplace.