Orgs, Orgs and more Orgs

[terryl965]

Over the last year I have looked into over forty different orgs for TKD and for the most part they are all about money and not much substance for developing TKD any futher, why is it when people get together and form such organization they forget why after a few year what there mission statement really says. I was wondering why you joined your org and what makes them different from the rest?

 

[IcemanSK]

While Terry I think I've told this story to Terry, I'll tell it again for the sake of the thread.

I began in KKW-style TKD in 1982 & received my 1st Dan KKW in 1985. I changed schools in 1986 when my master sold the school & moved out of state. I went to an ITF-style school (that turned out to not be affiliated with the ITF) for several years. I received (what I thought was) my 2nd Dan ITF in 1988. After I found out the truth of this "ITF school" I spoke to a 9th Dan KKW about training & testing under him. He saw my cert from the "ITF school" & laughed me out of his office.

Fast-forward years later....I was asked to teach TKD at the community center where I was working. I wanted to give my students ranking that meant something beyond my say so. I spoke to 2 groups of people about training & working under them: some ITF folks in So. Cal, & GM Edward Sell (9th Dan KKW). I really didn't care if I went with KKW or ITF credentials. I wanted something I could trust. I've seen my share of :bs:


The ITF guys were nice, but they said there really aren't many ITF-style schools in So. Cal, none of them near me, & they really were just a bunch of guys from other parts of the US who connected & trained together. They also said, "it's been 2 years since we've gotten together." They said they couldn't help me with my students.

GM Sell was also nice, but he made no promises to me of quick advancement, or such things. (Which was a fear at the time. Ya know.."Big $$ for a belt.") When I did test under him: the test was hard & reasonably priced. Biggest reason I'm with him after 3 years is he does what he says he's going to do & he listens to me. He's a genuine help to me in teaching & running my school: but I can have my own ways of doing things as well. That's why I'm with the US Chung Do Kwan Association USCDKA.com

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Iceman put it very well:

"I wanted to give my students ranking that meant something beyond my say so."

This is why KKW certification is important to me. I have my ideas about what I want to teach my students, and working in the KKW requirements is quite easy.

Terry, I think that the organization is far less important than the instructor. For example, I'd train under you if you were completely unaffiliated and made your dan certificates on your PC (and closer to my house). On the other hand, I have seen some very well connected schools with whom I'd want absolutely no association.

Daniel

 

[terryl965]

Iceman put it very well:

"I wanted to give my students ranking that meant something beyond my say so."

This is why KKW certification is important to me. I have my ideas about what I want to teach my students, and working in the KKW requirements is quite easy.

Terry, I think that the organization is far less important than the instructor. For example, I'd train under you if you were completely unaffiliated and made your dan certificates on your PC (and closer to my house). On the other hand, I have seen some very well connected schools with whom I'd want absolutely no association.

Daniel

Thank you Daniel and I would love to train with you maybe one day that will happen. The org. thing is mainly for outsiders that have been lead to believe you must belong to be good.

 

[BrandonLucas]

I used to think that orgs were necessary to teach under, and that if you didn't belong to one, then you weren't a legit rank...that was, until I realized that my dojang does not belong to the ITF, even though we learn ITF TKD. I did research on it, and I could test through the ITF organization if I needed to, but I don't see the need...you don't really have to belong to any organization to be able to teach.

I equate it to going to college and joining a frat (or a sorority). It's an option, and has many perks, but isn't necessary to graduating with a perfectly good degree (as long as the school is reputable).

 

[miguksaram]

I used to think that orgs were necessary to teach under, and that if you didn't belong to one, then you weren't a legit rank...that was, until I realized that my dojang does not belong to the ITF, even though we learn ITF TKD. I did research on it, and I could test through the ITF organization if I needed to, but I don't see the need...you don't really have to belong to any organization to be able to teach.

I equate it to going to college and joining a frat (or a sorority). It's an option, and has many perks, but isn't necessary to graduating with a perfectly good degree (as long as the school is reputable).

I used to have this same feeling. That to be a part of an org was the best thing because you would have something to back up your rank. Then more and more I found these orgs just giving out high ranks like candy regardless if they were deserved or not. Now I belong to just two orgs. United States Taekwondo Committtee and American Karate Association. I chose these two simply because they seem to have a desire to help the "common" man as well as strive to bring the "do" (note: Not dough$$$) back into the martial arts.

 

[Kacey]

Over the last year I have looked into over forty different orgs for TKD and for the most part they are all about money and not much substance for developing TKD any futher, why is it when people get together and form such organization they forget why after a few year what there mission statement really says. I was wondering why you joined your org and what makes them different from the rest?

My instructor, along with several other seniors, was a founding member of our association when we left the USTF. He gave us all the choice of staying in the USTF and maintaining our connection with him, staying the USTF and severing our connection with him, joining the YCTA and staying in the USTF, joining the YCTA and leaving the USTF. I chose to leave the USTF and join the YCTA because I felt it was in the best interest of my students - and it's a decision I've never regretted.

 

[Miles]

I too am amazed at the number of organizations in TKD. Just look in the back of any TKD Times and it seems like there is a new org every issue.

Why do people belong to organizations? I think at some point, there is a need to come together for a purpose. For example, for competition purposes, I belong to Michigan Sport TKD, Inc. which is a State Association under the USAT. As such, I am also a member of USAT since I pay dues to them.

We all belong to the organization called Martial Talk. We get a chance to discuss issues which affect us or our students.

I think organizations can be a good thing. One organization which seems to get a lot of bad press is the American TKD Association. However, in my albeit limited experience with one ATA instructor, I've seen his teaching, marketing, and curriculum materials and frankly they blow away anything I've seen in any other school/organization.

IceMan mentioned his organization and how satisfied he was with his testing and training experiences-so they can be beneficial if operated properly.

On the flip side, I know of a person who jumped from org to org and got a promotion with each jump. These organizations existed to push paper rank certificates. I guess I'll just stay put and be environmentally friendly.

 

[YoungMan]

There are so many organizations because different instructors have different interpretations of Taekwondo, leading them to follow their own path.
Some want money, so they found their own org where they can be the boss and create income for themself. Some have disagreements with other orgs, leading them to found their own org to pursue their own vision.
I think the legitimacy of the org depends greatly on the motivation behind it AND the connections and background of the person founding it. Not all organizations are equal.

 

[Twin Fist]

orgs are money pits

without fail

simple test, name an org that doesnt cost you any money to join.............



i'll wait

 

[BrandonLucas]

Wow...

I guess I'm in the lucky minority that doesn't belong to an organization. Sure, our dojang doesn't have the financial backing...but look at the mess we avoid being lumped in with.

I'm glad my instructor is as old-school as he is. He chooses to not keep up with the current status of TKD. And now I understand why.

 

[miguksaram]

orgs are money pits

without fail

simple test, name an org that doesnt cost you any money to join.............



i'll wait

While you are correct most orgs charge the difference is some are Not-for-Profit while others are not.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

orgs are money pits

without fail

simple test, name an org that doesnt cost you any money to join.............



i'll wait

I disagree.

Not all cars are money pits, but all will cost money to own. Not all colleges are money pits, but all cost money to attend. Whether or not it is a money pit depends upon what one receives from the organization in proportion to the money spent.

The big factor is knowing what you want from an organization. Some offer things such as insurrance, special seminars, and other perks. Some are athletic organizations, such as USAT, and offer a healthy tournament circuit for those who lean in that direction. Some are just paper mills.

Daniel

 

[DMcHenry]

orgs are money pits

without fail

simple test, name an org that doesnt cost you any money to join.............



i'll wait

The one I belong to doesn't. (United States Korean Martial Arts Federation, or USKMAF)

 

[YoungMan]

And it doesn't cost money to live in the United States? It just becomes a cost-benefit question. Do the benefits of paying to join something justify the costs?