opening new dojo - living there to save rent?

[WaterGal]

Early classes can work, depending. We tried have a 9am Saturday kids class and a... maybe 1pm adult class, and they were both ghost towns, but the ones in the middle were fine. Then we rearranged the schedule so we had a couple of adult classes in the morning starting at 9am, and kids classes after that, and the turnout was much better. I think adults want to get up early (maybe not too early though!) and get their workout out of the way before chilling out, while kids like to sleep in or watch cartoons in the morning and then go have a fun class with their friends after lunch.

 

[WaterGal]

So does this mean you would become an employee thereby they would pay You. Based on a number of student based commission program or such?

FWIW, we have an instructor that also teaches a class at a rec center, and that's what they do. They pay $X/student as an independent contractor. It's some cut of the tuition the student pays, like 1/2 or 2/3, I don't recall the exact split.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

We have had a 10:30-12:00 class for a long time. I have had enquiries about an 8:00 or 8:30 class but it has never gotten off the ground.
Way back when I was training for the circuit, I had a 6:00am class because if fit my schedule. We did have a decent amount of people show up.

Heck, if folks are asking, I'd give it a go with something temporary. Folks are more likely to rouse themselves for a short-term commitment, so if turnout is bad, it's probably going to be worse for the ongoing class.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

FWIW, we have an instructor that also teaches a class at a rec center, and that's what they do. They pay $X/student as an independent contractor. It's some cut of the tuition the student pays, like 1/2 or 2/3, I don't recall the exact split.

The rec center I taught at had two options. You could rent the room per hour (something like $15/hour) and keep all income, or you let them take registration and they kept 25%.

 

[marques]

I would not mind training (or giving trainings) in a backyard (if it was not for the weather). Garage or adapted room would be a better cheap alternative.

Whatever you decide, I would advise to make it self sufficient. You could give your time, at best, but other costs must be paid by students. Your offer is for them. Spend as much as they can pay.

Very few make any significant money in martial arts, so investing now for future profit may work, but it is risky. Focus on your main job. Give martial training a try, as a side job or hobby. If it goes well, it could become the main job... but that is a big step.

 

[333kenshin]

So does this mean you would become an employee thereby they would pay You. Based on a number of student based commission program or such?

Good question - I need to get more details from them. The sense I get is that if they like my teaching style, they contract me at a fixed hourly rate regardless of student count. Obviously I have to hold my own in terms of the class being good enough to merit renewal into the next session. It's an interesting model, contrasted to most of the other places I've reached out to being based on renting the space at a fixed dollar price per hour and they not playing any role in finding students. I wonder if I could collaborate with them initially for a while as a form of lead generation, but I'm not sure if there are ethical concerns around such an approach. Of course that question is moot in the likely case their contract features a non-compete clause.

 

[dvcochran]

Good question - I need to get more details from them. The sense I get is that if they like my teaching style, they contract me at a fixed hourly rate regardless of student count. Obviously I have to hold my own in terms of the class being good enough to merit renewal into the next session. It's an interesting model, contrasted to most of the other places I've reached out to being based on renting the space at a fixed dollar price per hour and they not playing any role in finding students. I wonder if I could collaborate with them initially for a while as a form of lead generation, but I'm not sure if there are ethical concerns around such an approach. Of course that question is moot in the likely case their contract features a non-compete clause.

Would this space you 'rent' be in an active gym or sport complex? If so I think collaboration is a very good idea and, assuming you have a good product, a win-win for both sides. If done properly, this could be something done on a long term basis and save both sides money. Something you can take to the negotiation table if necessary.
If you rent space by the hour, do you always know what day and times you will have the space? This is something very important when promoting your business most of the time. Revolving hours would be hard(er) on drawing clientele.
If you are renting from an existing MA location I would think a 'non-compete' the way you describe it could be tenuous. If the other instructor is open minded, forward thinking, and confident in is craft I could see real advantage in 'adding' another style to the whole products offering. If the other instructor is an 'ancient Chinese secret' guy, I imagine it could be troublesome.

 

[jobo]

Good question - I need to get more details from them. The sense I get is that if they like my teaching style, they contract me at a fixed hourly rate regardless of student count. Obviously I have to hold my own in terms of the class being good enough to merit renewal into the next session. It's an interesting model, contrasted to most of the other places I've reached out to being based on renting the space at a fixed dollar price per hour and they not playing any role in finding students. I wonder if I could collaborate with them initially for a while as a form of lead generation, but I'm not sure if there are ethical concerns around such an approach. Of course that question is moot in the likely case their contract features a non-compete clause.

i suspect that making any money teaching ma, with out having a good amount of money to invest is tricky, and even then.

if you cant afford to rent a space and a home, then you havent got enough cash put by to invest AND when it all goes '''' up youve nowhere to live

 

[Drobison491]

Something @gpseymour is doing which might be an option, is finding a dojo already in existence, and seeing if you can teach your art in between/before or after their classes, as a collaboration. Where, say, they get 50% of your tuition (and possibly more clients for their classes), but in exchange you don't have to worry about renting the place.

At least to start.

That's what my instructor does. He rents the space from an Aikido school, though I don't know the details of the arrangement

 

[GojuTommy]

Hi folks,
I'm a 2nd dan karate instructor aspiring to open a branch studio of the school where I currently teach and train. I've heard 2 common pieces of advice across several discussion boards about starting up a studio:

1) start small by renting a room per hour in say a school, gym, or church to build up numbers before signing a lease for dedicated store space. This totally makes sense from a cash flow perspective - paying for capacity you're not in position to use is just burning through savings.

2) the most cost-effective way to draw in more clientele is location conducive to foot traffic with compelling signage. Ideally next to an anchor like a supermarket or bookstore

Unfortunately these individually valid bits of advice seem to contradict one another, since a rented room in a school/gym/church limits you on both foot traffic and signage.

One method I've heard of squaring that circle is where the studio has a back room or attic space where the instructor actually lives in order to save on rent. I wouldn't want to do this long term, but could imagine doing it for the first year or so of operations while the business is finding its legs and getting enrollment numbers up.

Can anyone comment on the concerns with regards to legality, logistics, ethics, and perception in such an arrangement? Anecdotes of both successful and failed instances, and what were decisive (and perhaps unforeseen) factors would be great.

Thanks!
-Dave

PS: I'm mindful of the fact that, given the recent bankruptcy of Boy Scouts of America, there is an added need for vigilance against any form of impropriety where kids are involved. The space will be marked Private, remain locked during all business hours, and accessible to only myself.

Those two pieces of advice aren’t necessarily meant to be taken and used together. More of here are two separate pieces of advice.

As to living in the dojo in some way, honestly it mostly comes down to zoning and legality.

You can’t just buy or rent a property and decide to live there or run a commercial business out of it. At least not here in the US. You can get fined for living in your dojo if your dojo is in a strip mall space, not only could you get a fine from the city but you could invalidate your lease and be kicked out of the space.

But ideally yes, that would be the best way to do it.
That was my plan. My home is large and actually dual zoned so I was planning to open a dojo in the basement(which already has its own entrance.) couple things came up including my GF doing her PhD half way across the country so now that’s not happening.

 

[Gyakuto]

I wonder what happened to 333kenshin’s venture?

 

[WaterGal]

I wonder what happened to 333kenshin’s venture?

Considering the timing (their original post was February 22, 2020), probably nothing. Hopefully nothing - I know (well, Facebook know) somebody who signed a lease on a much bigger and more expensive facility around that time, and ended up going out of business as a result.