Ono does not forgive Lennon's killer

[MA-Caver]

Ono does not forgive Lennon's killer

12/08/2006 2:00 PM, Yahoo! Music
http://music.yahoo.com/read/news/37865380

Yoko Ono has appealed to people across the world to mark the anniversary of John Lennon's assassination today by healing the world.

The widow of the former Beatle has issued a lengthy statement calling for peace and forgiveness for all, 26 years after Lennon was shot dead in New York.

Ono, who admits she still cannot forgive Mark David Chapman for killing her husband, tells victims of violence across the world that "your loss is our loss."

On the anniversary of his murder the widow still hasn't found it in her to forgive. In one aspect I can't blame her... but after 26 years you'd think she could.
Part of peace mongering is forgiveness, I think. And being willing to forgive even this horrendous crime would speak a lot about the woman and her understanding of how forgiveness works.
I dunno, I don't claim total understanding but do know that being forgiving does take some of the weight off. I realize also that it may sound like I just contradicted myself from other posts when I speak of molesters, rapists and child murderers and so forth... but that is a gut reaction and while punishment should be met out ... forgiveness comes later. Sounds off but it's how I am ...
I still mourn the loss of John, I still love his music as a Beatle and his solo work.
Imagine!

From "Don't Look Back In Anger by Oasis
-------------
So I start a revolution from my bed
'Cause you said the brains I had went to my head
Step outside the summertime's in bloom
Stand up beside the fireplace
Take that look from off your face
You ain't ever gonna burn my heart out

And so Sally can wait, she knows it's too late as we're walking on by
Her soul slides away, but don't look back in anger
I heard you say

 

[exile]

Well, a lot depends on what it means to forgive someone... come to think of it, just what does it mean? What does it mean for X to say to Y---and mean it---`I forgive you for doing such and such'?

 

[Tames D]

Well, a lot depends on what it means to forgive someone... come to think of it, just what does it mean? What does it mean for X to say to Y---and mean it---`I forgive you for doing such and such'?

That is an excellent question. I don't have the answer to that. I don't honestly think I could forgive a man for taking my wife's life.

 

[exile]

That is an excellent question. I don't have the answer to that. I don't honestly think I could forgive a man for taking my wife's life.

I'm trying to approach this question in terms of, what would a reasonable paraphrase of `I forgive you for doing ABC' be? Does it mean, `I no longer mind that you did ABC'? Clearly not. Does it mean, `I don't hold you responsible for doing ABC'? But that would make no sense as long as we recognize that the do-er possessed free will at the time s/he committed ABC---under those circumstances, clearly the do-er was responsible for ABC. So does it mean, `I no longer hate your guts for doing ABC'? Somehow that doesn't feel right either. It implies that just being emotionally exhausted after years of grief as a result of someone who was injured or killed as a result of someone else's malice or stupidity is equivalent to forgiving someone, and I don't think most of us think of forgiveness as emotional numbness. So what does it mean? I'm not asking that rhetorically, it's just that thinking about MA-C's startup post, I suddenly realized that I don't really understand what the act of forgiving entails on the part of the forgiver.

And whatever it is, Qui-Gon, I'm with you on what you say above---if someone injured or killed my wife or my son, I'm pretty sure I could live to be a thousand and still wouldn't forgive them. But it's hard to say, without really knowing what the `action' of forgiving means...

 

[Jade Tigress]

Part of peace mongering is forgiveness, I think. And being willing to forgive even this horrendous crime would speak a lot about the woman and her understanding of how forgiveness works.

I think this is a good point.

What is forgiveness? Well, one thing it's not is excusing the person for the action. Forgiveness is not for the offender. Forgiveness is for the victim. Forgiveness says I will not allow your actions to go on violating me forever. It doesn't mean you stop feeling grief.

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif]Anyone who has ever been victimized—and that includes victims of crime, accident victims, adult survivors of childhood abuse, political prisoners, and so on—must decide whether or not to forgive the perpetrator. There can be no middle ground to this decision: either you decide to forgive the person who hurt you, or you hold on to bitterness and anger.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif]Holding on to bitterness and anger can cause problems of their own, so if you have ever been victimized, being able to forgive your victimizer is a crucial part of your healing.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif]I’ve seen individuals, for example, who have lost a family member because of a crime. The survivors’ anger and desire for revenge poison their entire beings. They so focus on what they’ve lost, and what they wanted the dead person to be, and do, for them, that they completely miss the opportunity they’ve been given to learn about real love.

Instead, they seem to believe that hatred, even to the point of capital punishment, will satisfy their thirst for vengeance and will somehow bring them healing.

So, with hardened hearts and stiff lips, they say, “I’ll never forgive.”

And the sad thing is that in wishing to send someone to hell they end up sending themselves there as well.[/FONT]​

Forgiveness, Psychology, and Mental Health.

Forgiveness is for the benefit of the victim, not the perpetrator.

 

[ArmorOfGod]

Despite what my religion tells me I should do, I would not be able to forgive someone who murdered my wife.

AoG

 

[Drac]

Despite what my religion tells me I should do, I would not be able to forgive someone who murdered my wife.

AoG

Ditto...

 

[exile]

What is forgiveness? Well, one thing it's not is excusing the person for the action. Forgiveness is not for the offender. Forgiveness is for the victim. Forgiveness says I will not allow your actions to go on violating me forever. It doesn't mean you stop feeling grief...
Forgiveness is for the benefit of the victim, not the perpetrator.

This is interesting---in a sense, then, you're saying that forgiveness is a conscious, deliberate jettisoning of---anger? hatred?---on the part of the person who has suffered the injury, without necessarily any change the way the victim judges the offender...[?] So it's possible for X to forgive Y without in any way changing their view that what Y did (and possibly what Y is) is ethically abhorrent...

It's a good take on the concept... I wonder how many people interpret it along these lines (again, that's a real, not rhetorical, question). The answer may be relevant to MA-C's original post, because if people interpret the notion in a way which requires them to cease to pass judgment on the offense and/or the offender (a different conception of forgiveness than what Pam described in her post) , they may truly believe that they are not capable of forgiving that person, simply because their view of the destructive action/actor hasn't changed and---in view of what actually happened---can't change. If YO believes that she has to revise her view of Lennon's murderer---what he is, what he did---she might very well say that she can't forgive him, even though under Pam's interpretation, I think she could do so without changing her judgment of Mark Chapman himself one bit.