Online Blue Belt vs White Belt at Small Competition

[FriedRice]

Lol, My mother was doing Krav Maga in the 1940s...in Israel when she was in the IDF. I know quite a bit about it actually...oh and it's not MMA lite.

That sure is sweet, but the current year is 2015 and not the 1940's and I just told you that there are more than one Krav Maga federation with their curriculum not all being exactly the same. Where I train Krav Maga, it's basically, MMA Lite.

 

[Tez3]

That sure is sweet, but the current year is 2015 and not the 1940's and I just told you that there are more than one Krav Maga federation with their curriculum not all being exactly the same. Where I train Krav Maga, it's basically, MMA Lite.

Patronise much? You really need to understand more about martial arts as a whole before you start lecturing people son.

I'm so pleased you find my comment amusing, my mother came out of the camps in German as the only survivor of her large family straight into another war, where Krav Maga was born and wasn't merely something for the boys like you to play around with. Often it was the thing that saved your life, weapons being scarce as they were at that time. You can play at it and kid yourself it's MMA lite but really that's all you are doing is playing.

 

[FriedRice]

Patronise much? You really need to understand more about martial arts as a whole before you start lecturing people son.

I feel the same way about you grandma, so we're even

 

[Tez3]

I feel the same way about you grandma, so we're even

No with your attitude you will never be equal. Only a complete idiot finds concentration camps 'funny'.

 

[FriedRice]

No with your attitude you will never be equal. Only a complete idiot finds concentration camps 'funny'.

Ha, now you're really reaching there with the concentration camp in order to sneak in, calling me an "idiot'. Keep trying mom. And I never said that I was your equal, that would be insulting my own self.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

ATTENTION ALL USERS: Please, keep the conversation polite and respectful.

-Brian R. VanCise
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[Chrisoro]

Sure it can. There are Krav Maga who fights MMA. They aren't the best or anything though. There are also Aikidokas, Karatekas, TKD, Capoeira, etc. in amateur and Pro MMA....all the way up to UFC Title holders. Of course they cross train in BJJ, Wrestling, Muay Thai and other staples of mainstream MMA, in order to make it work.

So what you are saying is that Krav Maga can work on it's own in an MMA-setting... as long as you cross train in BJJ, Wrestling, Muay Thai, etc.? Well, then we are in agreement it seems, as you just confirmed my statement that Krav Maga on it's own is insufficient for MMA.

And Krav is just this...Krav copies techniques from other styles, thus MMA Lite.

As do all other styles. That still does not make them MMA lite.

 

[FriedRice]

So what you are saying is that Krav Maga can work on it's own in an MMA-setting... as long as you cross train in BJJ, Wrestling, Muay Thai, etc.? Well, then we are in agreement it seems, as you just confirmed my statement that Krav Maga on it's own is insufficient for MMA.

No, I said it was those other styles such as Aikido, Karate, etc. are the ones that need to crosstrain in the grappling arts in order to make their base MA work, WELL, in MMA. While Krav Maga, in general, is already stealing most of its standup techniques from Muay Thai and most of its grappling ones from BJJ....which therefore, makes it MMA Lite....and I'm speaking from the KM federation that I trained under.

MMA fighting itself, can be extremely uncomplicated when compared to say, Sports BJJ. Worm guard, X-Guard, 50/50 Guard, etc....all of that can be significantly limited by punching the guy in the face. To fight MMA, you really don't need to get super good & technical at BJJ to do well. What's taught in Krav Maga, level 4 and up, is sufficient for MMA fighting. At least at the Krav joint that I trained at. But in general, people who wants to fight MMA, wouldn't go to a Krav class because it's more geared towards women, old people and dudes who are scared to spar at full power.

As do all other styles. That still does not make them MMA lite.

Well MMA is not exactly a specific style as it is a specific type of combat sport. You can argue that Mainstream MMA, currently, is a combo of BJJ + MT. But in the last 10 years, Boxing + Wrestling proved their effectiveness and now Wrestling is creeping it's way towards being the dominant grappling art for MMA. And there's currently a lot more, technical, Boxing "hands being thrown" in MMA than ever before, IMO. Then there are the oddballs, such as Machida and his Shotokan Karate. St. Pierre and his Karate. Chuck Liddell is a Karateka also. Petis, a TKD. And these guy rose to the very top of MMA. But yes, they also crosstrain ground-fighting. MMA can be almost anything...but it doesn't mean that such anything can win fights. But Krav Maga is a lot more like MMA Lite than say Karate or Kung-Fu by themselves are.

 

[Chrisoro]

Just curious. Which federation are you training under?

 

[Limasogobudo]

Watching the video congrats to the white belt. I have seen the GJJ combative dvds. I have them I think they are coming a long way now a days for those whom take it seriously. However I think if you are going to compete you should train that way. The Dvds are made so that you the Jiu Jitsu student can fight a no one. Their are some great key things in their but if you are going to compete I would sub-jest to that guy getting Saulo R. Dvds and rolling at a couple of gyms to get a better feel. I don't know how he got his blue belt tho he seemed really slow and kinda shocked, maybe it was his first tournament. He seemed slow to react. And the blue belt should not be made he should have studied what others were doing and ask questions that is what tournaments are for.... to learn. Not everyone can be the best.

 

[punisher73]

Why is the difference in focus a deficiency? If it is designed for unarmed self defense or streetfighting with someone without BJJ-experience, doesn't it make sence to focus on those techniqes of GJJ that has been proven to work in that kind of setting? Gracie Combatives is is not designed for BJJ competition. Competition-relevant techniques are introduced later, as is other self defence techniques against threats not covered in the combatives program. Saying that Gracie Combatives is deficient for not focusing on competition-relevant techniques, is like saying a word processor is deficient for being a poor spreadsheet.

Apples and oranges, people.

I'm guessing that you didn't read my post RIGHT after that one.

PS: That is only a "deficiency" if you want to roll in BJJ comps and compete with approaches that have more sport orientation.

 

[punisher73]

Man...I want to know WHICH combative programs that you are talking about, SPECIFICALLY, that "DOES NOT ADDRESS MANY COMMON TECHNIQUES that are successfully used in BJJ competitions".

The White belt merely did a stanky scissor sweep, with horrible technique, yet the CQC whatever Blue belt, just flew in the air. Which programs are you talking about that don't teach scissor sweeps or how to defend against them. What in the world?

I train Krav Maga, and it's basically MMA Lite, with weapons. Watching YouTube vids of Marines doing MCMAP...once again, MMA Lite.

Well, since this is a thread about the "GRACIE COMBATIVES" program. That is the one I am talking about.

If you have competed in BJJ, you know that there are many chokes that are gi dependant, many different types of guard variations (outside of closed/open/half/etc) that are not covered in this program that are used successfully in tournaments. If you actually got their program or listened to them, THEY will tell you that there are many techniques that they don't cover that are used in sports competitions.

Again, it is NOT a slam on the program. It is just a very defined program with a specific focus. IF you are looking for more of the competition aspect of BJJ, then the program probably isn't for you.

 

[kuniggety]

I was bored and watched the video again. Man that blue belt was terrible. Anyways, it's too bad the white belt didn't catch it but at the end he had his arm. He could've base ball slid to the left, swung his left leg over the guys head, and had an arm bar.

 

[FriedRice]

Well, since this is a thread about the "GRACIE COMBATIVES" program. That is the one I am talking about.

If you have competed in BJJ, you know that there are many chokes that are gi dependant, many different types of guard variations (outside of closed/open/half/etc) that are not covered in this program that are used successfully in tournaments. If you actually got their program or listened to them, THEY will tell you that there are many techniques that they don't cover that are used in sports competitions.

Again, it is NOT a slam on the program. It is just a very defined program with a specific focus. IF you are looking for more of the competition aspect of BJJ, then the program probably isn't for you.

Do you know what a scissor sweep is?

 

[punisher73]

Do you know what a scissor sweep is?

Yes. Point being?

You are all over the page with your discussion. You asked "what combatives programs"? I answered your question.
Now, you ask a random question that has NOTHING to do with the initial thread/discussion.

Here is the list of the 36 techniques to earn your blue belt in Gracie Combatives

1. Trap and Role Escape
2. Americana Armlock
3. Positional Control Mount
4. Take the Back (Mount)
5. Rear Naked Choke
6. Leg Hook Takedown
7. Clinch (Aggressive Opponent)
8. Punch Block Series (Stages 1-4)
9. Straight Armlock (Mount)
10. Triangle Choke
11. Elevator Sweep
12. Elbow Escape (Mount)
13. Positional Control (Side Mount)
14. Body Fold Takedown
15. Clinch (Conservative Opponent)
16. Headlock Counters
17. Double Leg Takedown
18. Headlock Escape 1
19. Straight Armlock (Guard)
20. Double Ankle Sweep
21. Pull Guard
22. Headlock Escape 2
23. Guillotine Choke
24. Shrimp Escape
25. Kimura Armlock
26. Standing Headlock Defense
27. Punch Block Series (Stage 5)
28. Hook Sweep
29. Rear Takedown
30. Haymaker Punch Defense
31. Take the Back (Guard)
32. Guillotine Defense
33. Elbow Escape (Side Mount)
34. Standing Armlock
35. Twisting Arm Control
36. Double Underhook Guard Pass

AGAIN, good emphasis for what it was designed for. But, the program is NOT meant to train you to be a successful BJJ tourney player. AGAIN, the Gracies themselves will tell you that too about their program.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Yes. Point being?

You are all over the page with your discussion. You asked "what combatives programs"? I answered your question.
Now, you ask a random question that has NOTHING to do with the initial thread/discussion.

Here is the list of the 36 techniques to earn your blue belt in Gracie Combatives


AGAIN, good emphasis for what it was designed for. But, the program is NOT meant to train you to be a successful BJJ tourney player. AGAIN, the Gracies themselves will tell you that too about their program.

Exactly. The Gracie Academy teaches the scissors sweep at blue belt. It's lesson #26 in the blue belt stripe 1 curriculum. Most of what you would need to compete in BJJ tournaments is covered after the student reaches blue belt.

This is a decidedly different approach from most of the rest of the BJJ world. Like it or hate it, they're doing what they set out to do.

 

[FriedRice]

Yes. Point being?

My point was that the scissor sweep is a simple technique, valid for tournaments and the streets.

But I will admit....I am forgetting what the hell I was arguing with you about in the first place

 

[Chester Wright]

Around my area there are a few schools that stick to the Gracie Combatives. We have gotten a couple of their students in our dojo and have had to push the reset button on their training. Jiu Jitsu is feeling, understanding of balance, weight distribution, movement, leverage, angles, and so much more. You cant attain Jiu Jitsu by watching videos and not being able to live roll.