No such thing in iaido as a left handed swordsman.
On Being Ambidextrous in MA
- Thread starter Jenna
- Start date
Yes it is for even if you start out that way society usually has you pick. I would color equally with both hands as a kid. In Kindergarten I was forced to write with my right as I could with both, so it was expected I write with my right hand. Later in the 7th grade I broke my right forearm and I used my left hand to write. It was not pretty, but I got it done. So my work was all in my own hand writing. I also went from bowlinng with my right hand to bowling with my left hand at the same time. I just went out and did it. Once again I was not that good to start but after a couple of weeks of practice I was close to my rigth hand. In pick up games of baseball, I would bat from both sides of the plate and I could hit ok for the left. Maybe not as strong, but about as accurate. In some YMCA swim classes I took I also learned that I was faster only breathing on my left hand stroke for the crawl. I had a hard time explaining this to the instructor until I had him just time me, and he realized I was smoother on that side. I can throw a frisbee or ball with either hand, I just have more distance with the right. Yet the left for Disc Golf seemed a little more accurate for the close ranges (putting). I also shoot pool or billiards with both hands. Once again not the same skill level, but enough that if I am not playing league and just for fun I can switch hands to get a better alignment.
Today many people think I am left handed as I carry my phone on my left side and use it with my left hand. It has more to do with me keeping my right side clear for various weapon deployment, and that I can do it maturally with m left hand as I have practiced ( used it daily ) in that fashion.
So one would have to start that way and train in occupational therapy and life skills every day with both.
Yes. See above. But practice is the key. Every day or near every day usage is important.
Yes and no. I understand the transitions for a left or right with our weapons. It is fun to switch up, and go against people who did not see the switch to the left and all of a sudden the angles are different for counters and locks and manipulations.
I also like to fight left hand while empty handed. Yet, this fits with the weapon side being forward.
The younger you are when you start the easier. Some people are easy to grasp it other will almost never grasp it. I have found that those who cannot tell their left from their right pick up both sides almost as fast as left handers who are used to being taught on the right. People who have never had to think about the their left as they were right handed seem to be the slowest to pick it up on the norm, given they are not natural at it in the first palce.
I think this is more likely the final answer. Why learn two things when you can learn one and know its' strengths and weaknesses? May people think like this. I like to look at both and train both, but I understand that I still have a dominate hand even though it might not be my handedness.
I have worked with some who have had TBI (Tramatic Brain Injuries ) and they had problems standing consistantly. But over time by using both hands at the same time even if you did not train both sides the same, but using both helped them rebuild some functionality in their brain so they could function better than they did after the accident. Most likely never like they did before, but in this case one is looking for any kind of improvement versus continued loss of skill or function.
I think training left (Off) handed helps the brain and body overall. I think it is beneficial even if you never get good enough to match you skill set on your dominate side.
Jenna, you are always so polite. I look forward to these exchanges.I welcome your input
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
A lot of our systems actually specify training on both sides. After the technique might be a note along the lines of "Left technique is the same", or simply "sayu" or "sayu gyaku" (sa meaning left, and u meaning right, gyaku meaning reverse, so altogether it means to do on the left and the right). Some of the weapon techniques (particularly Bo) state that the 25 techniques should be done on both sides, making a total of 50.
Sure, but look to the first four kata or so of MJER, my friend... the same concept/idea/tactical approach (what could be referred to as the same "technique") applied against opponents in front, behind, to the left, and to the right... so while the grip doesn't change to a left-handed grip, the sword doesn't change to be on the right hip, the technique still has an ambidextrous ideal to it....
Sure, but look to the first four kata or so of MJER, my friend... the same concept/idea/tactical approach (what could be referred to as the same "technique") applied against opponents in front, behind, to the left, and to the right... so while the grip doesn't change to a left-handed grip, the sword doesn't change to be on the right hip, the technique still has an ambidextrous ideal to it....
I think you should train every technique from both sides equally. Especially as your training applies to fitness. As I think back, I don't ever remember a dojo doing it any other way as far as class training goes. Sparring - the wiser fighter will try to use both sides equally.
That being said - when the caca hits the fan, IF we get a chance to assume a stance, I think we all know what side we'll have forward or back.
If not, we'll find out right quick when the time comes, me thinks.
That being said - when the caca hits the fan, IF we get a chance to assume a stance, I think we all know what side we'll have forward or back.
If not, we'll find out right quick when the time comes, me thinks.
SuperFLY
Green Belt
im left handed and due to the traditional nature of the MA i practice everything is right hand biased. fighting stance is left side forward not right, when practising with the sword i have to hold it in my right hand etc.. but yet my left is still stronger/more controlled and my kicks more accurate.
dont think that'll ever really change.
does offer me an advantage though where i can start in a normal stance and swap to 'south paw' at will, equally comfortable either way round. 1 being more natural to me as a lefty and one just being more practised.
dont think that'll ever really change.
does offer me an advantage though where i can start in a normal stance and swap to 'south paw' at will, equally comfortable either way round. 1 being more natural to me as a lefty and one just being more practised.
OP
OP
@puunui, "For example, if I know someone is off the line right leg roundhouse kick oriented", yes this is what I mean by unpredictability where you can predict your opponent knowing they generally always favour the dominant side perhaps? Is this relevant or does it provide an opportunity for advantage do you think? When you say specialise do you mean to focus effort on the dominant and stronger side? Thank you.
@X-S, helping a child decide on which hand is best for them I understand and but I had not realised that there was such discrimination. Why do you think this is or was?
@Bill Mattocks, is it an aim for you to eventually achieve parity between your strong side and less strong side or is it more of a nice-to-have? I think the mind is naturally disposed to mirror one side to the other and so I am wondering if it would be less of a mammoth task for most of us than we imagine. What do you think?
@dancingalone, can I ask please does the old country refer to a former time or another nation? Did your grandmother ever explain why this happened?
@ATC, thank you for your response, changing techs for different sides I think is sensible use of our existing resources, I agree with this. I wonder though, is there a chance that your opponent will know in his mind that you will be unlikely to throw a side kick from your left and exploit that to his advantage whereas if you have trained a little more with your left side kick you can throw right side kicks at him for the whole match and then bang one from the left and it may catch him unawares? Is there merit in ambidexterity for those reasons do you think?
@seasoned, do you think Wes this training means you favour only whichever side is most efficient, or do you find even with that training that you still tend towards your naturally dominant side?
@Jason Striker II, yes I have worked within that deliberately overcompensating structure also. I think symmetry is important for my own art, though I appreciate that is not a universal concept. Do you think building equal strength speed and facility with both sides would be an insurmountable job?
@Ken Morgan, is this really the case or a generalisation? Naturally left handed students must adapt to their right? Would an unorthodox left-handed swordsman present any problems to your defence, or is that not relevant?
@Rich Parsons, wow Rich you have made a lot of salient points. I am interested in your work with those with brain injury. I have also a little experience of this and have noticed that the brain seems to try to naturally compensate itself I think. It is almost like, you are forcing me to switch sides so I will. I think it is perhaps as you say, possible and but only with daily disciplined practice. And then this is why I wonder how worthwhile an investment in time this would be when the results might be approximated by simple switching of techniques as you and others have stated? Is there any real tangible benefit I mean? Thank you.
@Chris Parker, Christopher, you say that after the technique might be a note along the lines of "Left technique is the same". Is there much training to this effect in your art or is it merely something to note? Is practice carried out equally on both sides, is the student left to choose their own side or are they kept to the right side always?
@Buka, yes I take your point entirely. When training for fitness we want both sides equal and so why different for our MA. I think in any endeavour we all know our chocolate (or favourite) foot and yet how much better to have both the same? Do you think this is something that might be worth training for?
@SuperFLY, can I ask please which art you practice that is right-biased? I think as you rightly say, the ability to swap is a natural advantage in fight situations. Do you feel training with your non-dominant right is making you more balanced? Or is it just confusing to your muscles?
@X-S, helping a child decide on which hand is best for them I understand and but I had not realised that there was such discrimination. Why do you think this is or was?
@Bill Mattocks, is it an aim for you to eventually achieve parity between your strong side and less strong side or is it more of a nice-to-have? I think the mind is naturally disposed to mirror one side to the other and so I am wondering if it would be less of a mammoth task for most of us than we imagine. What do you think?
@dancingalone, can I ask please does the old country refer to a former time or another nation? Did your grandmother ever explain why this happened?
@ATC, thank you for your response, changing techs for different sides I think is sensible use of our existing resources, I agree with this. I wonder though, is there a chance that your opponent will know in his mind that you will be unlikely to throw a side kick from your left and exploit that to his advantage whereas if you have trained a little more with your left side kick you can throw right side kicks at him for the whole match and then bang one from the left and it may catch him unawares? Is there merit in ambidexterity for those reasons do you think?
@seasoned, do you think Wes this training means you favour only whichever side is most efficient, or do you find even with that training that you still tend towards your naturally dominant side?
@Jason Striker II, yes I have worked within that deliberately overcompensating structure also. I think symmetry is important for my own art, though I appreciate that is not a universal concept. Do you think building equal strength speed and facility with both sides would be an insurmountable job?
@Ken Morgan, is this really the case or a generalisation? Naturally left handed students must adapt to their right? Would an unorthodox left-handed swordsman present any problems to your defence, or is that not relevant?
@Rich Parsons, wow Rich you have made a lot of salient points. I am interested in your work with those with brain injury. I have also a little experience of this and have noticed that the brain seems to try to naturally compensate itself I think. It is almost like, you are forcing me to switch sides so I will. I think it is perhaps as you say, possible and but only with daily disciplined practice. And then this is why I wonder how worthwhile an investment in time this would be when the results might be approximated by simple switching of techniques as you and others have stated? Is there any real tangible benefit I mean? Thank you.
@Chris Parker, Christopher, you say that after the technique might be a note along the lines of "Left technique is the same". Is there much training to this effect in your art or is it merely something to note? Is practice carried out equally on both sides, is the student left to choose their own side or are they kept to the right side always?
@Buka, yes I take your point entirely. When training for fitness we want both sides equal and so why different for our MA. I think in any endeavour we all know our chocolate (or favourite) foot and yet how much better to have both the same? Do you think this is something that might be worth training for?
@SuperFLY, can I ask please which art you practice that is right-biased? I think as you rightly say, the ability to swap is a natural advantage in fight situations. Do you feel training with your non-dominant right is making you more balanced? Or is it just confusing to your muscles?
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
That was in the early 60s and to be honest I have no idea as to why. It may have been a "Hey he uses both hands the same so let’s make him a righty" thing. There were kids in my class who were decidedly left handed it was just I felt, looking back on this as an old man trying to remember what that little boy thought, I was kind of gently forced into being right handed. I have had a few people look at my writing since then and the all say the same thing. They tell me I am writing right handed but my writing looks like I am left handed.
On a side note, in China, when it comes to writing characters.... you are simply not allowed to write left handed. The alleged reason is the characters will not look right. But then there is also an order to writing every single character as well.
Wes wrote
Jenna wrote
People that have never trained will have a domonant side. Those that have trained will have the advantage of having trained both sides (left and right).
We train with no hand protection on, and when we spar, only enough so as to not unduly hurt our opponent, but the possibility is always there. By only having minimal hand protection on while sparring, we don't tend to take a shot to give a shot, which I feel is unrealistic in a self defense situation.
Not everyone will subscribe to the advantage of training both sides, and, won't see the advantage, but in the heat of battle will sacrifice time and opportunity to change back to their dominant side, if caught with their other side forward. This is also unrealistic. This holds true in a street confrontation where you can't pick or choose which direction an attack will come from.
As a side not, boxers are trained with their dominant side because of the big gloves they wear which absorbs the shock of the hit. Without those gloves on, I would bet they could knock someone out with either hand. This is how it should be with martial artist.
"We need to train with the street in mind and not just sparring or tournaments. But, for schools to survive they need to make it fun for the students but at times not realistic, which is fine, "to each their own"................
Jenna wrote
People that have never trained will have a domonant side. Those that have trained will have the advantage of having trained both sides (left and right).
We train with no hand protection on, and when we spar, only enough so as to not unduly hurt our opponent, but the possibility is always there. By only having minimal hand protection on while sparring, we don't tend to take a shot to give a shot, which I feel is unrealistic in a self defense situation.
Not everyone will subscribe to the advantage of training both sides, and, won't see the advantage, but in the heat of battle will sacrifice time and opportunity to change back to their dominant side, if caught with their other side forward. This is also unrealistic. This holds true in a street confrontation where you can't pick or choose which direction an attack will come from.
As a side not, boxers are trained with their dominant side because of the big gloves they wear which absorbs the shock of the hit. Without those gloves on, I would bet they could knock someone out with either hand. This is how it should be with martial artist.
"We need to train with the street in mind and not just sparring or tournaments. But, for schools to survive they need to make it fun for the students but at times not realistic, which is fine, "to each their own"................
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Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Ah, the essential question of teaching and training... ideally, when it's written that both sides are trained, both sides should be trained, equally. Of course, many times only one side is trained in class, due to time constraints, or similar, but the ideal is that both sides are given equal weight. How that happens is up to the instructor and the students in question, indeed if it happens is much up to them as well.
Really the case. That said, there are a few unorthodox methods taught in some systems that do feature a left-hand dominant grip, but it's more about expediency of that method, rather than a norm or tactical advantage in most cases.
Jason Striker II
Blue Belt
Now that I think of it, when I was a kid (some 35 years back), in our traditional dojo we had "weak-side sparring"! Basically it amounted to fighting from a left-side stance; although as a brown belt you had your right arm tied to your body with your belt. Our Sensei didn't use this drill too often, maybe once a month.
It was a weird exercise, but not bad, now that I recall it.
It was a weird exercise, but not bad, now that I recall it.
dancingalone
Grandmaster
Both. Specifically in Vietnam circa 1905-1910 or so. My grandmother grew up in a mixed Vietnamese society still clinging to some of the old tribal customs yet overlayed with veneers of French 'progress'. She attended a French religious school where she was slapped when she used her natural left hand to write with. It is an old superstition. Supposedly left handers are prone to wickedness and misdeed.
Jenna,
It does help. For those who are in need of any ability at all, such as balance and or a skill with a tool, it helps them long term as they then begin to use both sides of the body in walking and in opening doors and carrying items and using tools.
I assume that you type some. You use both sides or both hands without thinking about it. It is a complex task done with both. I never learned traditional typing. I did hunt and peck. Right hand only. Then I did right and left. Then I started sing two fingers on each hand. Then more and more and I move my hand a lot. I may not be as fast, but I do not have injuries for repitition.
More Later. I have to run.
Thanks
It was difficult, mostly in trying to persist through feeling so uncoordinated that I wanted to use my stronger side even more. But it didn't last long. It only took me a couple of days to be evened out. And I generally learn techniques with my stronger side first because it was easier. But it also gave me some knowledge to work with when trying it the other way.
... Continued ...
For the average person it may not be as much of a benefit. What I have found that helps most people is moving both hands at the same time. I know it seems like a simple thing, but for some reason it is complex. People break it down and show one hand move and then the other. The student does the same and if the instructor does not come back and revisit with a better timing of moving both you end up with one hand responding on time and the other not.
Also doing drills that owrk both sides of the body is a good thing.
I am not as good of a shot (firearm) with my left. I practice. When I know the chances of being in a fire fight is slim, and for me to have an injured right hand and use my left are just a smidge above none, especially once you factor in having it on you and getting access as well. Yet I train both sides as I find it beneficial over all.
Now, that does not mean you should not go off and train your main hand to the best it can be. If not a child then waiting for the other hand will be boring and frustrating. Use the gains in the main hand to inspire the off hand.
SuperFLY
Green Belt
I practice both Shotokan Karate and Aikido.
Generally when practising, doing sets etc.. it is always left foot forward (i.e. right handed stance as you block with your lead arm in most cases and counter with the right). Also if you look into any of the kata's the final attack in all the groups of movements almost always finish with the right (presuming its your strongest)
I do of course practice both sides as you're expected to do both sides during the sets - kihon/jiyu ippon kumite etc..
In Aikido when doing 1st form the 'go to' stance is right hand out so right hand is starting the technique, this blurs a bit later on as 2nd form prefers the left to start (or perhaps i make that happen by holding my left hand out?
heh) To be fair left or right doesn't matter with Aikido, I get grabbed/I grab whatever arm is being held out with whatever arm the form requires (1st form is opposite hand, 2nd form is same side, etc..) It's when we're doing iaido (sword arts) that I'm forced to use my right hand. No left handed swordsmen, heh. That said my sensei did say to me it would be worth practising myself using the left as it would be advantageous to be able to use both. I have more control with my left definitely even though during lessons I only ever hold it right handedly.even though most of my training is right side i do still feel more comfortable throwing a left kick or punch so i am slightly biased that way but adapting to your opponent often means im blocking with the left and countering with the right. does mean i can get a stronger 2nd counter in though that's normally unexpected. I wouldnt say it confuses my muscles, but I think my left side will always still feel the most 'natural', no matter how much I practice with the right.
Em MacIntosh
3rd Black Belt
I'm right-handed but I adjust my stance according to my opponent's stance. I prefer an open stance (If opponent has their left foot forward, I put my right foot forward and vice versa) as I've found (in sparring) it adds another layer of difficulty for them commence the offensive and I have a mean snap kick off the front leg. I feel equally natural on both sides but with my right foot forward I prefer the bi-jong stance, with my left leg forward I prefer a boxing stance.
Occasionally our karate instructors would throw us a curve-ball and have us do kata on the opposite side. This would often expose errors to look for on both sides that otherwise might have gone unnoticed.
In general I prefer the right foot forward.
Occasionally our karate instructors would throw us a curve-ball and have us do kata on the opposite side. This would often expose errors to look for on both sides that otherwise might have gone unnoticed.
In general I prefer the right foot forward.
Eye dominance is a biggie. Rather than worrying about co-ordination, worry if you are doing things blindly.True ambidexterity where left and right sides function with equal speed, strength and efficiency I think is rare?
Do you think is it possible to generate a reasonable level of approximation to true ambidexterity through consistent practice?
Do you train equally left and right in your art? If so, in randori / sparring do you find you revert to your dominant side?
Would the amount of effort and determination needed to realise a state of true -or close to true- ambidexterity be worthwhile in order to more capably defend ourselves? Or is this the very essence of adaptability in our MA that we can compensate for weakness on our non-dominant sides?
I welcome your input
Sean
OP
OP
I am not aware of eye dominance. Can you tell me Sean what implications has this for practicing MA? Thank you.
