Olympic Combat Sports

[Steve]

Must Thai isn't too violent for the Olympics, it's been recognised as a sport that could be in the Olympics. It just needs a host country to choose bring it in.
The hold up for MMA is all procedural, we need one international committee in charge with at least 50 affiliated national authorities. Everything has to be standardised, from the fight rules (many follow the UFC ones with their own bits added or taken away) to the referees and judges training. There'll have to be qualifications for all officials then the gloves, shorts, tops, etc all standardised. Cage or ring? Some fight promotions have rings because they are cheaper to get hold of. Official drug testing, then the organisations have to sign up to uphold 'Olympic values'. Most of this isn't necessarily a bad thing but it's going to take a lot of organising worldwide, I don't know if it's possible, at least for a long time.

Totally agree. I think if MMA focused on amateurs who aren't locked into a contract with an organization, it would be relatively easy to create an international governing body, agreed upon rules, and entice countries to create some national organizations. This would probably involve additional safety gear (e.g., shin guards, possibly head gear as with boxing, etc). But it could be done.

I just don't know if there's any real desire to do this. Most amateurs with any potential are going to fight... maybe 5 or so amateur bouts and want to turn pro as quickly as possible. It's not like in boxing, where someone might have 20 amateur bouts or more before deciding to become a pro.

 

[Steve]

FWIW, I think BJJ or some kind of submission wrestling is far more conducive to an Olympic format than MMA.

 

[Buka]

Totally agree. I think if MMA focused on amateurs who aren't locked into a contract with an organization, it would be relatively easy to create an international governing body, agreed upon rules, and entice countries to create some national organizations. This would probably involve additional safety gear (e.g., shin guards, possibly head gear as with boxing, etc). But it could be done.

I just don't know if there's any real desire to do this. Most amateurs with any potential are going to fight... maybe 5 or so amateur bouts and want to turn pro as quickly as possible. It's not like in boxing, where someone might have 20 amateur bouts or more before deciding to become a pro.

True. But in boxing, unfortunately, there are tons of professional tomato cans....guys who take fights to help pad the other guys record.

Boxing is so crooked dirty it's amazing it's still around. And, God help me, I still like it.

 

[Gyakuto]

Koroddy and kadda

 

[Gyakuto]

MMA has been put forward several times but the IOC says we have to have one overall organising and ruling body before we can be considered. Once that's organised we wait until the IOC recognises us (they've just recognised kickboxing) and then wait until a host country chooses MMA to be in their Olympics.

The danger of course is that to be an Olympic sport .at require considerable watering down so it won't be the MMA we do.

I love watching MMA, for the most part, and it would definitely uphold the Olympic ideals of excellence, friendship and respect, but I’d somehow feel a little awkward seeing it in the Olympics alongside dressage and archery etc. What would the world’s grandmothers think of it on their TV screens (Grandma’s are the universal barometers of decency, incidently)?

 

[cane56]

Thought I'd start a thread on the various Olympic combat sports. Share any good videos you find or just discuss the various events.

I asked earlier what we were in for with the Karate. Found this, which is from qualifiers. A good preview of what to expect. Mostly kata in the first half and some kumite in the latter half of the video.

Could be fun to watch, actually.

 

[cane56]

Koroddy and kadda

I thought using the term Taekwondo in a tag fight was so disrespectful. My martial arts journey started 40 some odd years ago, and then my dojo we went full contact. Taekwondo also has armbars wrist locks throws it's not standing there playing tag with each other. I don't care what name they use call it sports martial arts but it's kind of like calling a Porsche of Volkswagen.

 

[Damien]

I can't say points karate is really my thing, but having watched a few of the qualifying matches, I reckon the Olympic Kumite could be pretty exciting. Lots of sudden changes in momentum that can lead to shock turn arounds. It might not be the best representation of sparring, but as a high stakes sport it's not bad.

I think I'd enjoy the kata more if I had a better grounding in Karate, rather than Kung Fu, but I'm looking forward to watching a few rounds of the best in the world competing.

I'll be intrigued to see whether it sticks around, or has any knock effects for other martial arts. But yeah MMA isn't likely. There's enough outlets for people to watch and compete in that already.

 

[Tez3]

I love watching MMA, for the most part, and it would definitely uphold the Olympic ideals of excellence, friendship and respect, but I’d somehow feel a little awkward seeing it in the Olympics alongside dressage and archery etc. What would the world’s grandmothers think of it on their TV screens (Grandma’s are the universal barometers of decency, incidently)?

As a grandmother, MMA coach, judge, promoter, corner and referee I love it lol.
I've been to many fight nights and range of ages is quite across the board, grandmothers tend to be quite vocal in support and seem to like shouting 'break his arm' quite a bit.
The people we've had protests from tend to be people who believe everything they read in gutter press.

Years ago there was an MMA fight night in Manchester (UK), the first there. The media went overboard talking about death matches, broken limbs, rivers of blood. People were up in arms vowing they'd do anything to stop it, they didn't, it went ahead. The crowd though were rough, they'd been attracted by the headlines, thinking it was going to be bloody and gruesome. At the interval they mostly got up and left as it wasn't what they expected, it was too tame.

Incidentally did you know that dressage's origin is as training for battle, the moves a horse would make to help his rider kill and clear infantry from around him. Warhorses were fierce. Archery, well English longbowmen?

 

[Gyakuto]

Just caught a bit of women’s and men’s kumite and it’s much more exciting, dynamic and engaging than Olympic TKD.

 

[Gyakuto]

Years ago there was an MMA fight night in Manchester (UK), the first there. The media went overboard talking about death matches, broken limbs, rivers of blood. People were up in arms vowing they'd do anything to stop it, they didn't, it went ahead. The crowd though were rough, they'd been attracted by the headlines, thinking it was going to be bloody and gruesome. At the interval they mostly got up and left as it wasn't what they expected, it was too tame.

You’ll see more aggressive fighting on the streets of Manchester (my home town)

 

[Xue Sheng]

2:45pm today...KARATE begins

 

[Gyakuto]

2:45pm today...KARATE begins

Oh that’s good to know…I thought the 30 mins-worth I saw on the BBC was all we were going to get!

 

[Xue Sheng]

Oh that’s good to know…I thought the 30 mins-worth I saw on the BBC was all we were going to get!

I should clarify, that is 2:45pm, Eastern Standard Time on the USA Network. That is when it is being televised in the US, on the east coast. But I doubt that is the time the matches are being held in Tokyo, that would be 3:45am Tokyo time.

 

[Gyakuto]

I should clarify, that is 2:45pm, Eastern Standard Time on the USA Network. That is when it is being televised in the US, on the east coast. But I doubt that is the time the matches are being held in Tokyo, that would be 3:45am Tokyo time.

It must be sheer coincidence because the women’s kata was broadcast at 2:45 British Summer Time!

 

[_Simon_]

Yeah have already watched it (Tokyo is only 1 hour behind Australia). Was quite good from what I saw! Some questionable calls from the referees haha but that always happens.

 

[Steve]

Yeah have already watched it (Tokyo is only 1 hour behind Australia). Was quite good from what I saw! Some questionable calls from the referees haha but that always happens.

Wait... we're not seeing the events LIVE???? Unacceptable!!!

 

[drop bear]

FWIW, I think BJJ or some kind of submission wrestling is far more conducive to an Olympic format than MMA.

Pancrase is of course the popular choice.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Well. so far, the Karate is much better than the TKD IMO

 

[isshinryuronin]

Well. so far, the Karate is much better than the TKD IMO

One of the reasons, IMO, is that karate kumite has not gone off the rails in mutating into a sport format, yet. The TDK (and some karate) rule set restricts too many techniques and the way points are scored encourages just a few high scoring techniques being used. This lack of diversity in technique and tactics makes for a boring match (and takes the art further away from its combat roots.)

A trend I see in kata competition (even in "traditional" tournaments) is the increasing amount o posing being done. Holding a dramatic position for 3, 4, or 5 seconds seems to serve only one purpose - audience entertainment. Personally, I would penalize posing if it exceeds a certain amount of time.

What could be an end result of kata sportification is the awarding two sets of points as in some Olympic sports - one for technical execution and one for artistic interpretation. While form is an element in kata, stress on "looking" good and doing techniques, not for combat, but solely for appearance's sake, would be a death knoll for real karate (at least the kind I like.)