Oklahoma cop pulls ambulance over; puts EMT in chokehold while patient lingers

[Bob Hubbard]

Here's my question....I have to yield to both vehicles.

when it's a cop vs an ambulance, who has right of way?

 

[jks9199]

I'm sure I already know the answer to this but just in case, would someone please set me straight?

Police do have to take occasional psychological evaluations. Right?

Not as a rule, in most agencies. In fact, there's not even a statutory requirement for any specific sort of psychological evaluation in my state.

Officers that show signs of serious psychological distress may be sent for evaluation, subject to the general orders of the department.

 

[jks9199]

Depends on state law -- but there's no firm rule in Virginia. Personally, I'm probably going to yield to the ambulance at an intersection, or go around them (I can drive faster than that bus... and have different rules on red lights) if I'm behind them. If in doubt - the one more likely to be en route to save a life wins.

 

[Archangel M]

"Police Officers" come in many varities; Village, Town, City, Metro, County, State.

As different as one cop can be another, so can one Cities force can be different from anothers... so can the culture between a Town Cop and a State Trooper. North from South. East Coast to West Coast.

Point out how MY department was wrong all you wish, give me something to discuss that I could DO something about but dont expect me or my department to feel some sort of responsibility for the actions of an officer hundreds of miles away....the most I can do is give my impression based on my personal experience.

I dont know where else to go on these threads...

 

[tellner]

Even if the guy had flipped off the cop - and I'd be willing to bet a month's pay that it was "testilied" after the fact or was a mistake on the officer's part - that does not justify deadly force. Choking someone is deadly force. If an armed man is choking you and threatening to shoot you that is most certainly a "terroristic threat" under the older meaning of the law.

Failure to yield is not a capital offense. It does not represent an "immediate and otherwise unavoidable danger of death or serious bodily injury to an innocent". The ambulance driver wasn't a fleeing violent felon showing "callous and gross disregard for human life" (I think that was the wording from Tennessee vs. Gardner). And since there was an uninvolved patient who was being kept from emergency medical care by this little cluster-**** the officer was showing callous and gross disregard for the lives of innocent people.

Maybe he had a bad day.
Maybe the ambulance driver reminded him of his mean third grade teacher.
Maybe he really did get the Highway Salute.
Or maybe he just had a bad case of arrogance and wanted to prove that his was a couple inches longer.

It doesn't matter.

A sane man would have gone to the hospital and resolved the matter there once the patient had been admitted. A reasonable man would have taken down the ambulance number or license number, called the company and looked up the paramedic at some convenient time in the future.

Officer Friendly was not acting in a sane or reasonable manner. If even half of this is true he used deadly force and the threat of further force in a situation where it was not warranted.

If you or I pulled crap like that we'd be up on charges. He should be held to at least the same standard.

 

[Archangel M]

All I know is that if that were my father or loved one in that ambulance (patient) there would be a serious lawsuit going on.

That would depend on what your damages were. Not knowing the condition of the patient..if she made it to the destination with no injury or worsening of condition I would say that the medic would be the more likely one to win a suit.

 

[Sukerkin]

Hmmm..over 836,787 American LEO's. Give each one say 5 citizen contacts a day..thats 4,183,935 citizen contacts daily. Factor in the cops who shouldnt be cops and the cops who did something stupid and how many cases like this do you think you get percentage wise?

While abuse of power by the police is no laughing matter and each case should be dealt with...lets not go overboard with the sweeping generalizations. Making judgments about ALL American cops based on YouTube videos and internet threads is as fair as my pigeonholing all Englishmen based on my impressions from watching their behavior at soccer games....

I'm assuming that this was somewhat directed to me, Angel? I quite agree with your second paragraph and whilst posting was thinking along identical lines to your first.

 

[punisher73]

"Police Officers" come in many varities; Village, Town, City, Metro, County, State.

As different as one cop can be another, so can one Cities force can be different from anothers... so can the culture between a Town Cop and a State Trooper. North from South. East Coast to West Coast.

Point out how MY department was wrong all you wish, give me something to discuss that I could DO something about but dont expect me or my department to feel some sort of responsibility for the actions of an officer hundreds of miles away....the most I can do is give my impression based on my personal experience.

I dont know where else to go on these threads...

Agreed, where are the millions of videos of police helping people or de-escalating a potentially violent situation or putting themselves in harm's way.

What he did was wrong and could have been handled MUCH differently. But, I get tired of all the videos posted on how the police mess up all the time.

During one of my talks with some kids going into Law Enforcement I told them all the following statement.

"You will carry the sins of all officers on your badge". People will see YOUR badge and judge it the same as all their experiences WITH a badge.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I don't find videos of officers doing good unfortunately, but I do try to post the news articles when I find them to balance things as I can.

 

[Flea]

Not as a rule, in most agencies. In fact, there's not even a statutory requirement for any specific sort of psychological evaluation in my state.

Officers that show signs of serious psychological distress may be sent for evaluation, subject to the general orders of the department.

Jks, I find that distressing. It's not as if it's hard to sail through those exams regardless of your state of mind. But given that fact that people are handed a position of authority and expected to carry weapons throughout the day as a job requirement, at least some token effort should be made to ensure clarity of mind. If only for PR reasons.

Punisher, your comment on "the sins of all officers" reminds me of a conversation I got into as a teenager. I was on the subway at 14 when a city cop sat down next to me. I didn't engage him in conversation, but he was chatty and went on about how he loved his job ... "and the best part is that when someone gives me crap I can sling it right back at them. Before I became a cop if someone hit me I'd get in trouble if I hit them back. But not any more!" It was my first interaction with a police officer and my skin crawled. I didn't say a word (I was afraid to!) and that quote has stuck with me ever since.

 

[Flea]

A neutral suggestion ... perhaps this thread should be moved to the LEO forum?

 

[jim777]

This is why I love big city cops; they see so much and just have so much experience that they seem to always do the right thing. Tough to shock; they've seen worse that whatever it is you're doing. You might get a "summons or a sermon", but you almost never get both. I never have an issue with city cops....now, when I'm driving cross country, or I'm otherwise hundreds of miles from a city, that's when I get apprehensive. You never know what kind of power trip you're going to find in the local sheriff's office in the middle of nowhere.

 

[Tez3]

The British police shown in the video clip in an earlier post on here have been suspended and face criminal and disciplinary charges.

 

[jks9199]

Jks, I find that distressing. It's not as if it's hard to sail through those exams regardless of your state of mind. But given that fact that people are handed a position of authority and expected to carry weapons throughout the day as a job requirement, at least some token effort should be made to ensure clarity of mind. If only for PR reasons.

Punisher, your comment on "the sins of all officers" reminds me of a conversation I got into as a teenager. I was on the subway at 14 when a city cop sat down next to me. I didn't engage him in conversation, but he was chatty and went on about how he loved his job ... "and the best part is that when someone gives me crap I can sling it right back at them. Before I became a cop if someone hit me I'd get in trouble if I hit them back. But not any more!" It was my first interaction with a police officer and my skin crawled. I didn't say a word (I was afraid to!) and that quote has stuck with me ever since.

Many agencies do choose to do some form of psych assessment -- but the format varies widely from a pure pencil & paper "integrity test" to the MMPI or pure talk assessment.

I don't have documentation available off the top of my head -- but I think that their hard to actually show that these tests do more than weed out the worst candidates. A good, thorough background investigation is generally at least as effective, especially when coupled with a good field training program. Often, you just plain don't have a clue how a person will behave when they get the badge and are on their own until you get them there.

(FYI -- Virginia's minimum qualifications are HERE for most officers.)

 

[howard]

(FYI -- Virginia's minimum qualifications are HERE for most officers.)

jks9199,

Virginia's requirements seem pretty basic and uncontroversial... other than the requirement that officers be US citizens, do you know why they would have included the waiver? I mean, I can understand why it would make sense to allow a non-citizen (say, a permanent resident, aka "green card holder") to become an officer, but why would they ever want to waive any of the other requirements?

Are you aware of any examples of any of the requirements being waived?

Thanks.

 

[jks9199]

jks9199,

Virginia's requirements seem pretty basic and uncontroversial... other than the requirement that officers be US citizens, do you know why they would have included the waiver? I mean, I can understand why it would make sense to allow a non-citizen (say, a permanent resident, aka "green card holder") to become an officer, but why would they ever want to waive any of the other requirements?

Are you aware of any examples of any of the requirements being waived?

Thanks.

I don't know if they've been waived; the option is there kind of as an "in case of" or perhaps to grandfather officers who were already sworn and working when the law was passed. But, for example, it might be reasonable to waive the physical for a soldier being hired straight from deployment who couldn't go to the approved docs for some reason, maybe. Or someone who doesn't have a GED but clearly has the appropriate education and intelligence...

Don't know, I don't write laws and don't have any birds or stars on my shoulders! Waivers are headaches well above my paygrade!

 

[Empty Hands]

Grabbing a man by the throat isn't violent?

Good point. I was just trying to convey that I expected strikes and major damage inflicted, and it looked like that didn't happen, despite flaring tempers. I'm not trying to say anyone was particularly justified. As others have said, the arrest/ticket/dispute/whatever should have taken place at the hospital.

 

[Archangel M]

The British police shown in the video clip in an earlier post on here have been suspended and face criminal and disciplinary charges.

And we dont know what the end result of many of the situations discussed here recently....I just don't like the "This is solely an American phenomena" some of these threads take at times.

 

[Archangel M]

I had to take a bank of psych tests and then speak to a shrink before hiring.

And they still hired me..so take that as you will.

 

[Archangel M]

I don't find videos of officers doing good unfortunately, but I do try to post the news articles when I find them to balance things as I can.

Nobody wants to tape a cop doing what he is supposed to be doing....

And many people dont seem to care to watch them when they do anyways.