I've been training in Kenpo and Arnis the longest. I do not claim to know every single ounce of history, however, I know enough. I feel pretty confident that I could answer most questions pertaining to those arts, and if I couldn't, I have sources to get that info. from. I've jumped into the TKD sections here, the WC sections, the BJJ section, even the Ninjutsu section, and posted questions. One thing that I do not do, nor will I ever, is go into those sections, and start talking like I know all there is to know about TKD, when in reality, I have never trained in it a day of my life..lol.
Its not that anyone is claiming they 'know' the entire history of any martial art. We don't have to in this day, transitive memory allows us to remember where we need to look for info which is pertinent toward what we are discussing or learning about, and thankfully, wikipedia is an excellent compendium for cursory information on a subject. Martial arts history is convoluted, often, especially in relation to Korean, Chinese, and Japanese arts.
I think thats what we're seeing here. We see someone saying things, making claims, and being countered by others that know alot more than said individual, yet said individual doesn't want to listen. Go figure...lol.
This is fair. It's not a matter of not listening, or I frankly wouldn't be responding to this at all, but rather that we disagree. Frankly, assuming I'm just wrong on my opinion of things is a bit uncouth in martial arts, from my experience. I generally don't tell people, do it this way, because I might be in err of what their teacher expects, and has instructed. What's to counter? Are we debating? Sparring?
Perhaps you could answer the questions I have posed. Namely for your Shotokan karate, your Krav Maga and your Aikido, where did you train, with whom did you train and for how long did you train? That will give us a good understanding of where you are coming from.
the Aikido training I have had has been through several teachers. One is instructor Cotrell, though that was only for a few months. My teacher of Bagua was very skilled in daito ryu aikijujutsu, and learned Aikido in the 50s around the time they added 'dan' ranking for Aikidoka. I do not believed he was ranked in aikido. He just happened to enjoy Bagua, and was gifted at the art because he treated it less as a combat system, and more as something to add into the meditative circle walking.
Krav Maga I learned from special forces members who frequented my family's home. My mother is a colonel in the army, and these guys were, from what I can gather, the army equivalent to CIA spooks. They wore no uniform, and tried to look civilian. You can always spot them out at an airport.
Shimabuku Soke:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatsuo_Shimabuku
He was a very small person by American standards. He was devastatingly powerful and again I ask why would he invent a system he himself could not be proficient in?
The answer, not surprisingly, is that your statement is incorrect.
Please stop making statements like that about an art you clearly know nothing about.
Bill, I am also a small person, and I can cover a range of 10+ feet with a one step-motion kick. I made this kick up, designed it, everything. I have never witnessed another able to do it, much to my regret. It is not for lack of teaching. What works for some, might not for others. Being small doesn't stop us from being able to generate force or momentum, but arts which take advantage of those kind of forces, as opposed to speed or flexibility, are better suited toward larger people. Sure, a small person can do them, just as a small person can do Oh Do Kwan. It's not the same thing, though, as when its in the hands of those best suited toward it. I think the grossest example would be if you stuck a skinny person into a sumo match, even if they knew the style. the question isn't if it's doable, the question is why do it, when there are other paths which can be taken, with less resistance, which go better with your body? I know how to grapple specifically so I can escape from grabs, holds, and throws, not so I can execute them myself. I see no need to when my goal is to hit the vitals, as opposed to put someone on the ground. I do this because I have realized, when I actually go against professional jiujitsu people, who are MASSIVE, I cannot compare. I am happy to just not get hurt, and be able to unentangle from them. At least then, when standing, I can stomp on them if it were the street, and so on.
But Bagua works with my small size; bulk would actually inhibit it. I don't need strength when there are other styles happy to give it to me. Isshin ryu has phenomenal power in my opinion, but this also just makes it easier to redirect them. Same thing for Shotokan. The lunging, aggressive tactile push forward is what works best for bagua to contront, and mitigate. In Karate, in TKD, there is a tendency to want to stand there and just take hits, and so the arts have become oriented for people to operate like that. But if you take an art which specializes in generating tremendous amounts of force this means a couple of things need to be kept in mind; normally, the more force comes at a cost to speed, and additionally, against arts designed to channel force, those arts which generate such tremendous physical force for striking... are only empower the person practicing the channeling art. The more force, the harder it is to control, and it takes next to no force to just position one's arm in a way to shift their strike a fraction to the left or right, and their power disintegrate harmlessly against the air.
You want to know the easiest way to take down a practioner of Bagua, or Aikido? An Armbar. Simple, crude, and they get so close its nearly unavoidable at times if you do it right.
1 - No such critter as "Chinese Kempo". This is an Americanism. Regardless of what you see out there, literally the words don't match. It's like saying "Kobe Fried Chicken" or a "Centerfire Musket". Chinese practice quan fa or kuen faht depending on the dialect. They do not practice kempo.
I concur with this. TKD, likewise, just translates out into way of the hand and foot. Whose way? Why? I find korean arts lacking because they are kind of generic. Anytime you just decide to create a martial art to represent your national identity, and assemble a dozen masters to come up with something, in the end it's going to get a little wonky. That's my theory for why half of TKD looks like TKD, and the other like Karate, at least.
2 - TSD is more closely related to JMA than anything CMA. I know what they say & I've seen a couple of advanced hyungs of theirs. I see no more CMA influence there than in Shotokan. Really & truly the only OMA styles that display any concrete CMA origins in my experience & opinion, are Goju ryu & Uechi ryu.
In Shorin ryu, I know the name pays respects back to CMAs, but I'm not seeing CMAs in how they move.
Even then Uechi is debatable because Kanbun Uechi incorporated outside techniques while in china. That's not a bad thing, but if asking for 'pure' Okinawan karate... it gets a little fuzzy between the lines I think.
opcorn: and :cheers:
