OH Man – A new low

[Xue Sheng]

Sorry Xue so what is next for you?

Nothing different terry, I have not trained with my first Sifu at all for well over 10 years. I have been training with my second Sifu (Yang Taijiquan) for over 15 years now and I will continue training with him. And I have trained others (Sanda, Xingyiquan and Wing Chun) that I consider a Sifu since then as well. And a seminar or two with other CMA teachers that I would consider a legitimate Sifu just not my Sifu..

It is just that I take a look at my first sifus webpage from time to time, generally for comic relief these days, but his latest claim of knowing forms from Yang family members that the Yang family does not know just got to me and brought back all those feelings of disgust and disappointment.

 

[Flying Crane]

Hey Xue,

have you ever considered sort of calling his bluff? I think you could do it in a respectful way, non-publically so that you aren't embarrassing him. You could write him a letter and lay out your observations and your concerns and basically say, "what the hell are you doing??!!"

It might not change his behavior, but at least he would know that he ain't fooling everyone, and there are people out there who know the truth.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Hey Xue,

have you ever considered sort of calling his bluff? I think you could do it in a respectful way, non-publically so that you aren't embarrassing him. You could write him a letter and lay out your observations and your concerns and basically say, "what the hell are you doing??!!"

It might not change his behavior, but at least he would know that he ain't fooling everyone, and there are people out there who know the truth.

Next time I see him I may just ask him about the Yang style DVDs he claims are of 1st and 2nd generation Yang family. I tend to run into him at least once or twice a year so next time... we will see.

 

[XingyiMax]

I am not fraud busting since I am not giving out names but I am just not happy about this and I had to get it off of my chest.

My first sifu, who I have mentioned before in reference to changing for the o-mighty dollar, has sunk to a new low and I deleted most of what I wrote, before posting, in a effort to keep it short and avoid a long rant and frankly after writing it all out, I no longer really cared :shrug:.

My first sifu, who learned virtually all of his Chinese Martial Arts at a Chinese Physical Education University (except for 2 forms; 1 Chen, 1 Tongbei), who knew no traditional Taijiquan forms (except for a very old version of Chen Laojia), who did not like to be called master or sifu and preferred being called by his first name (he is now a Grand Master by the way )

Now is apparently not only a master of multiple traditional Taiji family styles but he is now a master of old Yang style forms from Yang Luchan, Yang Banhou and Yang Jianhou that the Yang family doesn’t even know :disgust: and you can be to for $44.95 per DVD for about 15 DVDs :disgust:. Oh and if you what the Yang Chengfu version that too is only $44.95 per DVD for 3 DVDs :disgust:.

Well I guess what CZL said about him must be true, “he must be a Grand Master, he knows over 100 styles”


Eh whatever

Thanks, I feel better now. :asian:

look on the bright side, you ex-sifu has learned to market himself and he is making a better living now.

Taiji form from Yang Luchan, Yang Banhou and Yang Jianhou? Does it really matter? They share the same core, it's only defferent people expressed in defferent ways. But, it does make a huge defferent in marketing to the general public.

 

[Xue Sheng]

look on the bright side, you ex-sifu has learned to market himself and he is making a better living now.

Taiji form from Yang Luchan, Yang Banhou and Yang Jianhou? Does it really matter? They share the same core, it's only defferent people expressed in defferent ways. But, it does make a huge defferent in marketing to the general public.

Taiji form from Yang Luchan, Yang Banhou and Yang Jianhou doesn’t matter except no one truly knows what that is and he never learned it form anything but a DVD or he possibly made it up all on his own.

I forget the term in Mandarin but it has been used to describe him by a few that would be considered a real Martial Arts Sifu and the term translates to "Dirty Businessman"

 

[grydth]

look on the bright side, you ex-sifu has learned to market himself and he is making a better living now.

Taiji form from Yang Luchan, Yang Banhou and Yang Jianhou? Does it really matter? They share the same core, it's only defferent people expressed in defferent ways. But, it does make a huge defferent in marketing to the general public.

Respectfully, I do not see this as a "bright side" at all, not in any way.

 

[XingyiMax]

Well, if you look around you, how many products truthfully work as discribed on their labels or as their claimed to be????

In my humble opinion, this "sifu" has turned into a salesman, he has just relabeled his merchandise, as long as he doesn't defame others to sell his products, that is fine for me.

Besides, I personally disagree on the exchange of the arts for money, I share my art for free, this is my journey and I choose to do that. However, I don't try to change other people's mind on this issue, somebody wanna to make money out of martial arts, it's fine, that's their way.

 

[geezer]

Hey Xue, I hate to play "topper" (a "Dilbert" reference) but I think my old Chinese sifu has gone even lower than yours. He was genuinely superb at his art, but he layered lies upon lies to inflate his public presence. He bullied and exploited sincere and dedicated student-disciples for personal gain, and the latest I hear is he's just been convicted in court in Hong Kong of really low, immoral, criminal behavior.

Xue, you know why this really galls me is that back in the years when I trained under him, my kung-fu brothers and I invested heart, soul and $$$ to learn from this guy. And we got screwed. At least we did learn some quality kung-fu, but now because of his behavior I'm ashamed to say who I studied under. Instead I use the generic term for this martial art, and if people ask I refer to the lineage by way of my si-gung, Yip Man.

 

[grydth]

Well, if you look around you, how many products truthfully work as discribed on their labels or as their claimed to be????

In my humble opinion, this "sifu" has turned into a salesman, he has just relabeled his merchandise, as long as he doesn't defame others to sell his products, that is fine for me.

Besides, I personally disagree on the exchange of the arts for money, I share my art for free, this is my journey and I choose to do that. However, I don't try to change other people's mind on this issue, somebody wanna to make money out of martial arts, it's fine, that's their way.

That many frauds upon the public may exist in no way justifies each individual fraud.

Had Xue's old sifu merely discovered a marketing strategy, we would have no area of disagreement. But that is not the process Xue describes here.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Well, if you look around you, how many products truthfully work as discribed on their labels or as their claimed to be????

In my humble opinion, this "sifu" has turned into a salesman, he has just relabeled his merchandise, as long as he doesn't defame others to sell his products, that is fine for me.

Besides, I personally disagree on the exchange of the arts for money, I share my art for free, this is my journey and I choose to do that. However, I don't try to change other people's mind on this issue, somebody wanna to make money out of martial arts, it's fine, that's their way.

This is not salesmanship, but if you wish to believe it is that is fine, I will not argue the point beyond this post.

What he is doing is outright lying to the public and his students. He learned all he truly knows in China a physical education university (except for 2 forms) and in China he is a gym teacher. He learned all competition (performance) forms and Sports sanshou in college he did not learn any traditional systems at all. What he learned prior to college was one rather long old style Chen Taiji form (not from the Chen family) and a Tongbei form. Not complete systems just 1 Chen form and 1 Tongbei form.

He now claims mastery of Xingyiquan, Baguazhang, Chen, Yang, Sun, Wu, Wu/Hao, Zhaobao Taijiquan, Shaolin Long Fist and a few others I can’t remember off the top of my head. He told me that the only Qigong he learned was Zhan Zhuang and he knew no other Qigong styles or forms Now he is a Qigong master and selling certificates world wide…just not in China. He did not learn the Yang style form of Yang Chengfu from any sifu anywhere in the world, he learned if from a DVD and he most certainly did not learn any Yang Taiji form any other family member lineage form any sifu either. He either learned it form a DVD or he made it up all by himself.

He has been told by the Chen family to stop teaching Chen and stop claiming lineage that he does not have to the Chen family. My Sanda sifu (the police/military version) calls him huā quán xìu tǔi and xìu huā zhǒu tóu to his face and my Yang sifu will not acknowledge him if he is in the same room

That many frauds upon the public may exist in no way justifies each individual fraud.

Had Xue's old sifu merely discovered a marketing strategy, we would have no area of disagreement. But that is not the process Xue describes here.

It is plain outright fraud and sadly when I first trained with him it was a great school and he taught only what he “really knew”. But now he teaches forms of Taiji that not even the families know.

More info in my next response to geezer

 

[Xue Sheng]

Hey Xue, I hate to play "topper" (a "Dilbert" reference) but I think my old Chinese sifu has gone even lower than yours. He was genuinely superb at his art, but he layered lies upon lies to inflate his public presence. He bullied and exploited sincere and dedicated student-disciples for personal gain, and the latest I hear is he's just been convicted in court in Hong Kong of really low, immoral, criminal behavior.

Xue, you know why this really galls me is that back in the years when I trained under him, my kung-fu brothers and I invested heart, soul and $$$ to learn from this guy. And we got screwed. At least we did learn some quality kung-fu, but now because of his behavior I'm ashamed to say who I studied under. Instead I use the generic term for this martial art, and if people ask I refer to the lineage by way of my si-gung, Yip Man.

OK OK you win

That is sad to read geezer ad I am sorry to hear about it.

Back when I trained with my first sifu we all work pretty hard as well and we got some great stuff but now if you mention his name to just about anyone in Internal CMA and a few outside of that you are setting yourself up for a whole lot of problems. Go to any of the CMA IMA websites and post his name and they will line up to tell you what they think about him, especially the Chen Taijiquan people. So I tend not to mention his name at all. And now he is so deep into his lies I actually believe he believes them now.

My first sifu sets up tours of China from time to time and takes those who pay there and he acts, in some areas, as a tour guide and he is not in any danger of going to prison in China or anywhere else as far as I know but he will never take any groups to Chenjiagou (Chen Village) or ( I believe it is) Zhengzhou City in Henan Province. The reason for this is the Chen family can’t stand him and he has been told to stop teaching Chen and stop claiming lineage and if he goes to Chenjiagou it would not be pretty and if he goes to Zhengzhou City he runs smack into Chen Zhenglei and that would not be pretty either.

And as long as he does not claim Yang family lineage my Yang sifu will continue to ignore him but if he were to ever claim that lineage he might go visit him, especially if he claimed it through Tung Ying Chieh. But so far the only family lineage he has claimed was Chen.

He also claimed to know the Bagua of Dong Hai Chuan which is also rather interesting since apparently no one else on the planet know it but then it is not likely that any of Dong Hai Chuan family is still around that would care.

 

[Xue Sheng]

And now.... he is teaching Taiji and giving people herbs (that he knows nothing about) to prevent heart attack... yet another new marketing low :disgust:

had a heart problem, have a heart problem, think you might have a heart problem just go to his seminar ($$$) and he will make you all better... :disgust:

I really have to stop looking at his website :disgust:

 

[clfsean]

Hate to say it... sounds par for the course

 

[oaktree]

I am rather interested in what herbs or herbal formula he is using.

I was eating dinner and a waitress heard my friend saying he felt ill and told him to take
Astragalus because she does Massage therapy. When my friend asked how many grams he should take or what side effect she avoided the question and gave us our check.

There is a gentleman who teaches *ahem* healing charges over $300 for a session can heal you from long distances and over the phone. Maybe I should make a site that lists potential healer scams.....

 

[Xue Sheng]

Hate to say it... sounds par for the course

Yup, showed this to my current Sifu/MD/old school TCM doc and he basically saiid this may get him a reservation in the iron bar hotel

I have not shown this to my Sanda Sifu/MD yet… should be interesting since he has called my first sifu a flower fist to his face before.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I am rather interested in what herbs or herbal formula he is using.

I was eating dinner and a waitress heard my friend saying he felt ill and told him to take
Astragalus because she does Massage therapy. When my friend asked how many grams he should take or what side effect she avoided the question and gave us our check.

There is a gentleman who teaches *ahem* healing charges over $300 for a session can heal you from long distances and over the phone. Maybe I should make a site that lists potential healer scams.....

WOW!!

My wife needs to raise her prices for office visits... bigtime