Objective Martial Tests

[Jade Dragon Alaska]

Quickness

One classic test for external breaking quickness, is for a partner to lightly hold a 2 inch breaking board at the top suspended by the index finger and the thumb, then you break it. If you are just strong or fast, the board will move and not break.

It is even harder, if you hold the board yourself, but it could be argued that your holding hand is involved in propelling the board or lessening its breaking resistance.

Internal Breaking Power

An objective test to see if your breaks are using internal power; is to break boards or tiles, and examine the cleavage of the break.

An externally manifested break's pattern will be angular, irregular and jagged.

An internally generated break pattern is a symmetric wave; through the X or Y axis (horizontally or vertically), the finer particled the material, the shorter the wave length.

Internal Penetrating Power

One gets a volunteer, who places a four inch thick piece pliable material; such as a thick paperback phone book to a large city, over their abdominal area. Pliable material is used to avoid the kinetic transfer of energy associated with the billiard ball effect. This effect causes the momentum of the striking ball to be transferred to the struck ball, which is sent moving.

Start with a small testing blow, then go to ¼ strength; then increment after that. Later you can try concrete, wood or steel.

The volunteer should not: deflect, move, push back, jerk or react to the blow.

If the blow; is really more of a push, the volunteer will be moved, yet not feel the blow much.

The volunteer will feel the blow; beneath the surface, but not on the surface. This effect cannot be a billiard ball type, kinetic transfer, if a soft, pliable material, such as a phone book is used. A karate punch will only be felt on the surface.

Experts or friends; will use the sternum area of males, since an external blow will mainly be felt on, or in the surface sternum bone. Special care must be used in this area to avoid heart complications. Testing blows are not usually more than 1/3 strength in this area.

From: http://www.jadedragonalaska.com/objective-martial-tests.php

 

[geezer]

An objective test to see if your breaks are using internal power; is to break boards or tiles, and examine the cleavage of the break. An externally manifested break's pattern will be angular, irregular and jagged.An internally generated break pattern is a symmetric wave; through the X or Y axis (horizontally or vertically), the finer particled the material, the shorter the wave length.

Jade... where do you get this stuff? Any evidence or sources to back it up would be helpful.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Jade... where do you get this stuff? Any evidence or sources to back it up would be helpful.

What geezer said

 

[mograph]

So kinetically, what is the observable difference between externally- and internally-generated blows here?

(I'm talking about acceleration, velocity, momentum and so on, not the breakage pattern)

 

[mograph]

Okay, a bit of research says that speed is everything. Go faster, and your punch becomes more of an impact load. This would be the "internal power" mentioned, and although it's a potentially misleading term, "internal" may be useful to describe the mechanism by which the power was generated, through internal relaxation, sensitivity and connection. In my opinion.

From wikipedia, for what it's worth (italics mine):

At normal speeds, during a perfectly inelastic (no bounce) collision, an object struck by a projectile will deform (change shape, squash), and this deformation will absorb most, or even all, of the force of the collision. Viewed from the conservation of energy perspective, the kinetic energy of the projectile is changed into heat and sound energy, as a result of the deformations and vibrations induced in the struck object. However, these deformations and vibrations can not occur instantaneously (this is important). A high-velocity collision (an impact) does not provide sufficient time for these deformations and vibrations to occur. Thus, the struck material behaves as if it were more brittle than it is, and the majority of the applied force goes into fracturing the material (causing more injury). Or, another way to look at it is that materials actually are more brittle on short time scales than on long time scales: this is related to time-temperature superposition.

I'd imagine that a slow "external" punch would have so little energy (speed and/or mass behind it) that there's no deformation in the opponent at all. It may be a mostly elastic collision, where the kinetic energy of the fist is transferred completely to the body of the opponent as kinetic energy, causing him to move.

So more speed, and more body mass behind the punch makes "internal power", maybe?

 

[Jade Dragon Alaska]

One good example of an internal blow; is analogous to a .50 caliber aircraft machine gun slug; coming within 2 inches of a persons skull, and the concussion kills him from hemorrhaging, yet no evident skull fractures.

An external head blow would be a baseball bat fracturing skull, or sword cutting off head: externally evident damage.

 

[clfsean]

One good example of an internal blow; is analogous to a .50 caliber aircraft machine gun slug; coming within 2 inches of a persons skull, and the concussion kills him from hemorrhaging, yet no evident skull fractures.

An external head blow would be a baseball bat fracturing skull, or sword cutting off head: externally evident damage.

Not really. The concussive damage from the .50 doesn't count since there's no direct contact. Sure, it does kinda the same thing, but not quite.

A better example I think would be where the kid playing baseball gets tagged with a line drive in the chest & falls over dead. No external evidence to indicate injury, but the heart's rythym was interrupted by the force of the blow. Basically the kid dead of a massive coronary on the field before anybody could get to him.

Or the kid playing soccer heads a ball & hits the deck dead. Again no external evidence of injury, but autopsy reveals where C1 or C2 separated & severed the spine from impact with the ball.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Internal External striker were explained to me this way

External blow covers a lot of area but does not penetrate very deep, it can still hurt you badly, but it does not go very deeply into the body, think sledgehammer

Internal blow covers a little are but goes deeply, think arrow.

 

[mograph]

... but how would one execute an internal punch, compared to an external strike?
We're not just talking about a fist vs. two-finger strike, are we?

 

[Xue Sheng]

... but how would one execute an internal punch, compared to an external strike?
We're not just talking about a fist vs. two-finger strike, are we?

No it has to do with the relaxation of the strike and use of fajin

 

[mograph]

So are we in agreement that relaxation leads to speed, and that fajin is describes a very high degree of acceleration?

(just trying to stay "observable")

 

[Jade Dragon Alaska]

Internal External striker were explained to me this way

"External blow covers a lot of area but does not penetrate very deep, it can still hurt you badly, but it does not go very deeply into the body, think sledgehammer
Internal blow covers a little area but goes deeply, think arrow."

Agreed.

RE: ... but how would one execute an internal punch, compared to an external strike?

With a wave like motion, kinematic wave theory inphysics delas with this.

More on internals ..

Entrainment is actually an aspect of resonance. Resonance may be defined as the frequency at which an object most naturally wants to vibrate. One object may set another object into motion if it shares the same resonant frequency. When you strike a tuning fork and bring it near another tuning fork of that same frequency, the second tuning fork will start vibrating; even though it has not been struck, the second fork will begin to vibrate and sound merely by being in the same field as the vibrating tuning fork.

A singer breaking a glass with his or her voice is an example of resonance. This also occurs between two guitar strings, one struck and one motionless. Resonance is a cooperative phenomenon between two objects that share the same frequency; where the natural vibrations of an object with its own vibrations set the other into motion. Thus resonance may be conceived of as being passive in nature.

Entrainment can change the natural oscillatory patterns, frequency or rhythm of one object and replace them with the different patterns of another (changing the vibrations of one object to another rate).

Internal blows will cause damage by the transmission of negative energy; that can pass through other areas, without damaging and/or moving them.

This is how Kuo Yu Chang (Gu Ruzhang) can break a brick in the middle of a stack, without harming the rest.

Some oscillatory patterns, frequency or rhythms build on each other, like successive waves cresting on top of each other. Many Rouge Wave Rollers over a hundred feet, are created in this manner. Nicola Tesla could destroy a small building with a small oscillatory motor he built, that would vibrate at the same frequency, and build on itself. Troops marching over a bridge deliberately set their march out of time, since it has destroyed bridges before.

From: http://www.jadedragonalaska.com/entrainment.php

 

[Flying Crane]

Hi Jade,

Would you please tell me for how long did you train under Sifu Wong Jack Man?

Thanks.