Obesity and Self-protection?

[kickcatcher]

Violent crime kills about 16,000 US citizens per year, but obesity causes at least 110,000* deaths per year, smoking 430,000 and alcoholism 80,000.

Without naming names, the Martial Arts community seems to be pebble-dashed with obese or optionally-unhealthy people claiming to teach or training self-defence.

I’m not disputing fat people’s right to self-defence, but it does seem hypocritical for people leading unhealthy, even deadly, lifestyles to lax lyrical about self-defence.

Do you think that these obese people change their priorities?




*Some estimates put the figure at around 400,000

 

[Grenadier]

You're opening up a can of worms here.

First of all, I do agree with the principles of what you have stated. Of course we'd all like to be fit and trim folks. In general, good things come from someone being in great shape.

On the other side of the coin, though, is being physically fit absolutely crucial to someone's ability to teach self-defense techniques? Or even the martial arts as a whole? I'm going to have to say "no."

As long as someone's mind is still sound, if he can still demonstrate the techniques proficiently, and get his message across to his students, then the girth of one's waist is not a factor in his ability to be a teacher. Also, this may indirectly be of a limited benefit, since it shows that you don't have to be a superbly conditioned athlete to be a good teacher or practitioner.

God only knows, that one of my fellow Shotokan instructors (from a long time ago) enjoyed too much of Wen's Chinese Express (all-too-conveniently located two buildings down from ours), and was easily 75 lbs overweight (should have been about 200 lbs, but was at 275 lbs). While he'd be hampered in extended free-sparring sessions, the quality of his techniques was still good, and he was still an effective teacher.


There does, however, come a point where someone is too fat for his own good, and that his obesity does affect his ability to perform to a good standard. At that point, you're darn right; he'd better start losing weight, or he's probably going to be a walking heart attack waiting to happen.

 

[shesulsa]

Hm. There is much to be said for people who are living examples of fitness and idealism.

However, there is a nagging little entity called real life which can tend to get the better of us once in a while and perhaps for longer whiles in some of us.

I try hard not to judge in cases like this until I get to know the individual and have a taste for what they KNOW and how they can teach. There are some truly phenominal teachers out there who just aren't in the best of shape due to health problems or a particular health history, medications, thyroid malfunction, etcetera.

My .02 FWIW ....

 

[terryl965]

Kickcatcher this is the same old story, I can only speak for me, I'm 5'9" 235 lbs. in same people eyes and probaly yours I'm overwieght. In my eyes I'm overwieght been working on it for two years now, but because of certain medication I take it is hard to get rid of the extra pounds. I work out 6 days a week teach 30 classes a week, probaly throw 10,000 kicks every week, so being overwieght has not changed me in any way except being a little slower and that also comes with age and learning how to use my weight as an advantage instead of it hindering me.
Terry

 

[kickcatcher]

I'm not questioning their teaching abilities, or even practical self-protection abilities, I'm questioning how serious they are about protecting themselves. Why dedicate hours to protecting yourself against highly unlikely events (homicide etc) whilst not dedicating time to protecting against the obvious (ill-health due to lifestyle)???

 

[Andrew Green]

I take it is hard to get rid of the extra pounds. I work out 6 days a week teach 30 classes a week, probaly throw 10,000 kicks every week,

Well, regardless of what the scale says, its sounds like you are in good shape

And that I think is really what should be getting discussed, not weight, but fitness level.

If going up a few flights of stairs leaves a person winded, they can't fight. In order to be effective you need to be in decent shape, which counts for more then belt or years training or anything.

Put a athletic person from any sport against a very out of shape self-defence expert, the athlete will be where I put my money every time.

Now a person can be out of shape and coach, same as in other disciplines, being able to coach something does not always require being able to do it. (Although I tend to think it is important that they have done it at some time) and it is kind of like having a doctor that smokes, drinks and eats fast food several times a week...

 

[RoninPimp]

IMO "combat fitness" is the first step in developing a personal SD plan.

 

[beau_safken]

Overweight is soooo relative. Granted yes there are those that are overweight, however if they are working out in anyway shape or form that is a MAJOR feather in their cap. Just doing something is better than 90% of all people that say they will do something. Working out no matter intensity or whatever is all good. I taught some what you would consider "butterballs" and I tell ya..All that padding sure made it tought to land a solid punch. Granted those guys kept at it for a couple years and went from butterballs to hardbodies pretty fast.

Time + Commitment = progress... Nothing in there about where you start from.

 

[kickcatcher]

Ok, here's a few MA instructors pics easily found on google. I have no idea who each one is, that's not my point. Should these people be battling against imaginary SD adversaries, or battling against the sixth helping of cake?

**MODERATOR NOTE: IMAGES REMOVED TO COMPLY WITH IMAGE POSTING POLICY - G KETCHMARK / SHESULSA MT SENIOR MOD.**

 

[beau_safken]

LOL ok point set match Kick. Just looking at all the patches and crap screams McDojo and a Mcdonalds close by for those particular instructors apparently.

I dont think I would be feeling too comfy with those kinds of people as instructors. Samo Hung is about the only guy that I would be cool with being big.

 

[shesulsa]

So ... apart from a lot of celebrity, a lot of money, exposure, and obvious (filmable) skill ... how do you know the difference between them and Samo? what these people can and cannot do based on a google photograph, regardless of the date the pic was taken?

I guess what I'm saying is ... what business is it of any of ours? If they choose to chow cheeseburgers between classes, isn't that THEIR problem?

Are we gonna get on them about other personal matters like ... sexual orientation? Relationship failures? Financial history?

Just curious about that slippery slope there ....

 

[beau_safken]

I might as well just change my name to "Slippery Slope Guy"

Sorry, but if my goal was to lose weight...I wouldnt go to a fat person for advice. Just like many other things. ITs the old stigma of preception. Would you ask someone with no legs for running advice even if they used to be a track star before a accident? You never know, but then again its all a matter of preception.

I know samo trained with Jackie Chan and regardless of his being in films, he is still damn good.

 

[INDYFIGHTER]

First time I sparred with one of our old instructors who I would have conisdered overweight the first strike he threw was a head kick I would have never guessed him capable of! He was also ashmatic so he was always short of breath. Was he any less of a good teacher? No, he knew devistating techniques and was focused on ending fights quickly.

Someone said they would put their money on a untrained (in martial arts) athlete against an overweight martial artist. I'd be carefull doing that. Just cause an athlete can run all day without getting winded, dunk a basketball or whatever doesn't at all mean they have the skills to end a fight on the street.

 

[kickcatcher]

People seem keen to defend the fat instructors and say how badass they can be. Cool, but it's not what the thread is about. It's about protecting yourself.

 

[shesulsa]

People seem keen to defend the fat instructors and say how badass they can be. Cool, but it's not what the thread is about. It's about protecting yourself.

Protecting yourself from yourself?

 

[Stan]

I think that this is a very interesting question that I have considered for a long time.

I don't think it's a issue of castigating people (not that anyone here has been doing that), but a question we should all ask ourselves.

Is "self-defense" the same as "self-preservation"? More specically, is the primary reason for wanting to be able to defend ourselves from violent attack, the desire to prolong our lives as long as is in our control?

Put this way, the question sounds ridiculous. Of course, no one wants to be the victim of a violent attack. Even fewer would want their life ENDED by a violent attack. We all seek self-preservation.

But as the original post asked, why do we choose to spend our time learning how to defend against this relatively unlikely threat? Besides health, we could practice defensive driving, swimming, or many other physical activities that are likely to prevent us from dieing a terrible death.

Obviously self-defense is not the only benefit of martial arts, nor the only reason we study. Still, many martial artists I know use efficacy in self-defense as rubrik by which to judge an art, a technique or a training regimen. Even for those of us who are healthy, not overweight, don't smoke, etc, how many of us put as much time and effort into making sure we are not killed by heart disease, breast cancer or in an auto accident, as we do trying to make sure we are not stabbed to death?

I mean that rhetorically, of course. I think that one of the primary benefits of learning self-defense is psychological and spiritual (regardless of whether one studies a "spiritual" martial art). We don't fear death as much as we fear someone exercising POWER over us, and we being POWERLESS to stop them. I believe, without being critical, that for many including myself, martial arts are about a sense of self, about our WILL, and our EGO.

For the martial artist, our training represents how we see ourselves in the world. Some of us may be better than others at defending against forces which threaten our lives, such as cancer and heart disease. All of us are mortal, and will succumb to one of these threats, no matter how much time we spend on health or self-defense. But we train so that we cannot be dominated, so that no other person's malicious WILL can snuff out our own. This is what makes the martial artist difference from the fitness nut. This is why self-defense is not mere self-preservation

 

[kickcatcher]

good post.

 

[Stan]

Thank you. Good thread.

 

[Shirt Ripper]

Obesity kills far more people every year than violent crime. If people were serious (/logical) about protecting themselves, they'd put lifestyle and diet way above self-defence training.

I agree with the first part. And I see your viewpoint. I think it is realistically possible to secure one's safety at the table and on the streets at the same time. In fact, many martial arts (which can and should be studied for SD purposes) are demanding enough physically that for some it can make an impact on one's physical condition and overall health...coupled with a sound overall plan, of course. The obesity rates and number of overweight individuals in this country is frightening to me (hence my career path) but I don't see it as necessary to neglect one thing to adopt a healthier lifestyle.

 

[shesulsa]

**Moderator note: Thread moved to Health Tips for the Martial Artist**
G Ketchmark / shesulsa