NY jails 2 for a week over candy

[CanuckMA]

So if someone is in possession of a baggie of white powdery substance of the right appearance, they can be held in jail for months until a lab confirm or denies what the substance is?

As opposed to doing a test with a field kit at the time of processing?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Problem is, lack of field tests, overloaded labs, and actual criminals going to greater extents to hide/camouflage drugs.

 

[Archangel M]

So if someone is in possession of a baggie of white powdery substance of the right appearance, they can be held in jail for months until a lab confirm or denies what the substance is?

As opposed to doing a test with a field kit at the time of processing?

All field tests do is provide another element of probable cause. They have been known to give false positives and false negatives. They are not "proof" of drug ID either.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

If I were to try and transport powder coke, I could brink it, bag it and shove it up my ***...or I could wear a chefs jacket, toss some cookware in the car, a recipe book, and some vegies, and put it in a bag labeled "sugar". Which one i suspicious? Me walkin funny with a worried look on my face, or me saying "hey, where's that Bobby Flay guy? I'm supposed to meet him at the Hilton for a Throwdown."

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

I spoke with my narcotics supervisor today.

He said that the filing narcotics detectives will conduct a test on drugs the next day after the arrest. This will only test for certain types of drugs though: cocaine, meth, heroine, and one other, I think. They don't test for marijuana (it's kind of one of those obvious ones), or exotic drugs like extacy, GHB, etc.

If there is no drug content in the preliminary test, the detective will release them. The drugs are still sent to the lab for verification, and if the preliminary test was wrong, the subjects can be later arrested if the lab test finds drug content.

So while my earlier statement was true, I was wrong on how the totality of the system works.

 

[Archangel M]

Is that true for all drug arrests or only for arrests they make? When a patrol officer here makes a simple possession arrest the dope goes straight to the lab. Our narcs never even see the stuff.

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

Is that true for all drug arrests or only for arrests they make? When a patrol officer here makes a simple possession arrest the dope goes straight to the lab. Our narcs never even see the stuff.

All of our drug arrests, except marijuana, are filed by narcotics detectives, even those made by patrol. Except for marijuana, the possession of most drugs in California is a felony charge, at least until it is rejected for felony filing and goes to the City Attorney for misdemeanor filing. That means that a detective, at least in our agency, is responsible for the filing. And the D.A. will not file unless he has the results from a preliminary test. However, that test is only good in a preliminary hearing, and not at actual trial, where it must have been tested by a criminal lab.

 

[jks9199]

I have to wonder how this is even acceptable... Can you Imagine losing your freedom for MONTHS while waiting for proof your candy is candy?

Sure, you can sue afterwords, but how does that really make up for spending that time incarcerated as well as all the other hardships that can come about?

It goes on all over. In fact, under Virginia law, we don't even send marijuana to the lab unless there are special circumstances or the defense asks. Otherwise -- it typically takes several weeks and is not at all uncommon for a preliminary hearing to be continued for the lab results. The labs are just overburdened... Due to speedy trial laws, we don't get some charges until we get a lab result back -- or we drop charges and bring them back later.

Judges do often grant bail if the person is in custody and not a threat to the community during delays for lab results.

 

[Archangel M]

It goes on all over. In fact, under Virginia law, we don't even send marijuana to the lab unless there are special circumstances or the defense asks. Otherwise -- it typically takes several weeks and is not at all uncommon for a preliminary hearing to be continued for the lab results. The labs are just overburdened... Due to speedy trial laws, we don't get some charges until we get a lab result back -- or we drop charges and bring them back later.

Judges do often grant bail if the person is in custody and not a threat to the community during delays for lab results.

Sort of the same here. Weed is sent to the lab but they don't actually test it unless the DA orders it. They hold it till the case is disposed of and then they destroy it.

 

[Archangel M]

All of our drug arrests, except marijuana, are filed by narcotics detectives, even those made by patrol. Except for marijuana, the possession of most drugs in California is a felony charge, at least until it is rejected for felony filing and goes to the City Attorney for misdemeanor filing. That means that a detective, at least in our agency, is responsible for the filing. And the D.A. will not file unless he has the results from a preliminary test. However, that test is only good in a preliminary hearing, and not at actual trial, where it must have been tested by a criminal lab.

Always interesting to hear how other agencies do things.

 

[jks9199]

All charges require is "probable cause" - facts or circumstances which would lead a reasonable person to believe that the accused more likely than not committed the crime in question. So, for example, if I find someone in possession of a bag of white powder or whitish chunks, which based on my training and experience I suspect to be cocaine in either powder or rock form, likely considering the packaging, odors, other items found (such as straws, razor blades, smoking devices, etc.), all I have to do is articulate to the magistrate those facts. It's the magistrate's job to be a neutral party assessing the probable cause, and setting any initial bond conditions. Ideally, I have a positive field test, as well. The field tests are not conclusive tests -- but they can establish probable cause.

 

[jks9199]

All of our drug arrests, except marijuana, are filed by narcotics detectives, even those made by patrol. Except for marijuana, the possession of most drugs in California is a felony charge, at least until it is rejected for felony filing and goes to the City Attorney for misdemeanor filing. That means that a detective, at least in our agency, is responsible for the filing. And the D.A. will not file unless he has the results from a preliminary test. However, that test is only good in a preliminary hearing, and not at actual trial, where it must have been tested by a criminal lab.

Kind of wild how different things can be... I made many drug arrests in patrol -- and I don't think the narcs even read some of the reports! They definitely didn't make the charges... In fact, generally, even if a druggie wants to work off their charges, we make the charges in the first place, and they waive speedy trial while they're working.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I would hazard that if you've busted a few people in that same area with bags, crystals, etc that turned out to be narcotics, that would also be a "probable" situation. Kinda like how sweet smoke and a hand roll may be pot, might be clove but is most likely pot?

 

[jks9199]

I would hazard that if you've busted a few people in that same area with bags, crystals, etc that turned out to be narcotics, that would also be a "probable" situation. Kinda like how sweet smoke and a hand roll may be pot, might be clove but is most likely pot?

Pot smells like pot. Not clove. (Certain rotting vegetation is close enough to the smell of pot that I've hunted hard... but it's not the same. And most people's cars don't smell of rotting vegetation...)

 

[Cryozombie]

Judges do often grant bail if the person is in custody and not a threat to the community during delays for lab results.

Ah, I love our system: Guilty until proven innocent, and only free if you have money to pay to be.

 

[Archangel M]

What do you suggest?

I'm not a judge. I only arrest on probable cause. Guilt is determined in court.

 

[jks9199]

Ah, I love our system: Guilty until proven innocent, and only free if you have money to pay to be.

Actually, no...

The presumption is that the accused is entitled to a reasonable bail. This can range from a simple promise to appear in court (in Virginia, I need special circumstances that suggest your promise isn't good enough to make a custodial arrest for most misdemeanors), to whole lots of money, depending on various factors. These factors include your resources, the severity of the offense, the chances the accused will simply vanish, and the risk to public safety if the accused is let out. Bail exists to assure that the accused will return for trial, rather than taking it on the lam. In Virginia, the magistrate sets the initial bond, usually at the time of arrest. That initial bond is generally reviewed by the judge at the time of arraignment; this is admittedly generally a de facto review. Bond motions are heard every day court is in session, and even some days that it is not, and bond may be reduced based on documentation that the accused isn't a danger to the community, and will come to court with a lesser bond.

And, if convicted, any time served goes to the accused's credit. I've had guys do most of their jail sentence waiting for court...

 

[CoryKS]

If I were to try and transport powder coke, I could brink it, bag it and shove it up my ***...or I could wear a chefs jacket, toss some cookware in the car, a recipe book, and some vegies, and put it in a bag labeled "sugar". Which one i suspicious? Me walkin funny with a worried look on my face, or me saying "hey, where's that Bobby Flay guy? I'm supposed to meet him at the Hilton for a Throwdown."

Seems to me that transporting anything would be fairly easy for someone with half a brain. What probably trips them up is the part where you try not to look like a ****ing drug addict.