No Touch KO

[TigerHeart]

So, I have been watching a lot of YouTube videos performing No Touch KO. These videos are hilarious to watch. How do you get the students to brainwash? Someone told me they are all acting. Where can I find these McDojo?

 

[lklawson]

Warning: Martial Talk has a policy against "fraud busting." Gets threads locked, at best.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[WaterGal]

I know this is totally not what you're talking about, but I have actually seen 2 times at a tournament where someone got KO'd without getting touched... both times, the person went to kick, lost their balance, fell down, and hit their own head (in one case on the mats, in the other, they fell out of the ring and hit their head on a chair) and gave themselves a concussion.

 

[skribs]

I know this is totally not what you're talking about, but I have actually seen 2 times at a tournament where someone got KO'd without getting touched... both times, the person went to kick, lost their balance, fell down, and hit their own head (in one case on the mats, in the other, they fell out of the ring and hit their head on a chair) and gave themselves a concussion.

I've never done a no touch KO, but have gotten a few no touch knockdowns with well timed kiyhaps.

 

[JR 137]

They’re not all fake

 

[Gerry Seymour]

They’re not all fake

I'm guessing I'm one of those two guys if I manage to get into a competition. Just waiting to find out which.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Im waiting for manover knock outs to become a term. under the same logic of manover kill, you perform some evasive action which causes the person you are fighting to knock themselves out.

 

[geezer]

So, I have been watching a lot of YouTube videos performing No Touch KO. These videos are hilarious to watch. How do you get the students to brainwash? Someone told me they are all acting. Where can I find these McDojo?

OK, without mentioning specific names or schools, I think it's fair, and certainly not "fraud busting" to politely discuss and criticize ridiculous practices such as magical "no touch" knockouts. In fact, I would go further and invite similar discussion on the perhaps slightly less implausible claims of some internal stylists who claim to be able to accomplish similar feats while barely touching an opponent.

For example, I believe most of us on the forum would be highly skeptical, to say the least, as to the combat efficacy of the following approach to martial arts training:

The first half of the following clip presents a variety of examples, the second half is intended to be "fraud busting" but regardless, does show the unfortunate consequences that result when such practices are paired with non-compliant opponents who really intend to fight you!

Now I don't think there is much point in belaboring any of this. The "truth" regarding these practices is either obvious, or you are living in a different, magical reality. IMO, if that is a person"s mindset, then there is no point in further debate. Further discussion is as bootless as debating religion. Each to their own.

Now this all gets a bit more sticky when discussing martial arts groups that make the implausible, but perhaps slightly less impossible claim to be able to control an opponent in such a manner with only a very light physical contact. Certain branches of tai-chi, aikido, systema and others have veered into these dubious waters. If a practitioner of these or any art actually makes such extreme claims, then I say that debate and criticism are to be expected.

Below are a few clips of practitioners of some otherwise highly respected systems whose claims may be legitimately considered questionable ...like the rather long interview with the tai-chi guy below. He seems very reasonable in his presentation until the interspersed demos begin stating at 7:30, with more at 11:15, around 14:20 and so on, which become increasingly far fetched IMO, especially the talk about using your chi to cause your opponent's connective tissues to stick to you, and beitng able to cause you opponent's body to "freeze" and so forth:

Now I admit having been thrown around like a rag-doll myself by high level practitioners of several arts over the years. But one thing I've never done is those backward bunny hops you so often see in these "magical martial arts" demos. What's with that? Any thoughts?

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Now I admit having been thrown around like a rag-doll myself by high level practitioners of several arts over the years. But one thing I've never done is those backward bunny hops you so often see in these "magical martial arts" demos. What's with that? Any thoughts?

From what i know, some of it is culture of the martial art, but as you know things get lost if you just look at a demo video or something similar and dont get the context. (hardly your fault for doubting it if you dont give the context) More of the bouncing back thing than the chi knock out thing. By all means you can blame people who remove context and attack it for being a con when its just tradition and no one who teaches makes the claim it works in a fight or something to attack the style.


The other part might be a placebo effect of sorts and you would need to separate people who believe in it who teach it and people who dont and teach it. In other words people knowingly conning you and people who think it works.

I kind of watched a video where someone described some of it as tradition but looks like crap to people who look at it and most styles and systems have something which looks like crap to someone. (not really the chi ball thing but more the bounce back thing and younger students letting the elders basically act like they can defeat 5 of them at once in combat that sort of thing)

thats what i have got on this matter.


In regards to the original post, truth is a very subjective thing, if you have been brought up with one idea and example which support it, its quite difficult for some people to disregard it for a contrary viewpoint, for others its easier. I can only bring up a example from criminology with those people who get kidnapped and turned into slaves. They usually get told X,Y,Z will happen to them if they run or some organization is watching them then they get no contrary information and drilled into believing it if they want to or not. Its the same thing repeated time after time after time with no opposition.

The echo chamber saying is also a good description for it. You keep getting one version of the truth with no opposing viewpoints so then you start to belive it and as there is no pressure for you to try to oppose the viewpoint, you dont. obviously some people question everything some dont and everywhere in between.

Kind of rambily but hopefully some of it makes some sense.

Addendum: 2+2=5 because i say it does.

 

[punisher73]

Well, sometimes the instructor is just a fraud. But, many times the instructor has a true belief in the "power of ki/chi" and thinks that they are real. Now you have a situation where students have faith in the instructor and an expectation of belief that it really works. What ends up happening is basic stage hypnosis. It's not "fake" as in both parties know that there is nothing there and both are "acting" like that is what happened. It just isn't "real" as in, the technique would work for anyone at anytime with no prior set up without the cooperation of both parties.

 

[Buka]

He who does not believe in the power of cheese balls knows nothing.

 

[Hanzou]

You see this often in non-competitive/ non-sparring martial arts where things aren't consistently tested against resisting opponents. If you're doing katas/forms all day, and you buy into your instructor being a guru with magical powers, this can happen very easily. You'll often hear exponents say that their master did all sorts of wild supernatural feats, like throw someone across the room with a flick of their wrist, or be able to appear behind them at will. Once you get to that point, the next logical evolution is your master staring at you and knocking you out.

 

[skribs]

You see this often in non-competitive/ non-sparring martial arts where things aren't consistently tested against resisting opponents. If you're doing katas/forms all day, and you buy into your instructor being a guru with magical powers, this can happen very easily. You'll often hear exponents say that their master did all sorts of wild supernatural feats, like throw someone across the room with a flick of their wrist, or be able to appear behind them at will. Once you get to that point, the next logical evolution is your master staring at you and knocking you out.

My master HAS thrown me across the room with a flick of his wrist! Well, first he grabbed my head, and it was mostly my momentum that carried me, but you get the idea.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

My master HAS thrown me across the room with a flick of his wrist! Well, first he grabbed my head, and it was mostly my momentum that carried me, but you get the idea.

As has my chief instructor. I was charging at the time, so again, mostly my momentum. But still a lot of fun being thrown that far!

 

[Hanzou]

My master HAS thrown me across the room with a flick of his wrist! Well, first he grabbed my head, and it was mostly my momentum that carried me, but you get the idea.

Yep, that makes sense. The problem is that people will leave out the head grabbing and momentum part.

 

[Brian King]

I once witnessed a no touch knock down, near drowning, and stroke from laughing. In Las Vegas attending a MA seminar I spending time after the event socializing out at the nice outdoor pool/bar. There was also some kind of athletic event hosted near the hotel (body building of some sort). Watched a guy walking around the pool flexed and looking mean at folks. Having enough of his attitude and nearness his attacker moved toward him and just his nearness started the body builder back peddling and waving his arms around frantically. Like many, going backward is not a practiced skill and Mr. attitude tripped over a lounge, bounced and skidded on walkway still frantically waving his arms and after the bounce and scramble ended up half on feet but still falling backwards. Yup butt over teakettle into the pool. Guy next to me also watching nearly died laughing, me I just took a sip of beer and saluted the attacker. Nice moves, good attitude and never touched the body builder with attitude, yet changed that guys momentum, and attitude. The attacker looked about an inch or two long from where I was laying enjoying the weather. Yellow Jacket for the knock down and win. Some lessons there that have remained to this day years later.

Regards
Brian King

 

[JR 137]

I once witnessed a no touch knock down, near drowning, and stroke from laughing. In Las Vegas attending a MA seminar I spending time after the event socializing out at the nice outdoor pool/bar. There was also some kind of athletic event hosted near the hotel (body building of some sort). Watched a guy walking around the pool flexed and looking mean at folks. Having enough of his attitude and nearness his attacker moved toward him and just his nearness started the body builder back peddling and waving his arms around frantically. Like many, going backward is not a practiced skill and Mr. attitude tripped over a lounge, bounced and skidded on walkway still frantically waving his arms and after the bounce and scramble ended up half on feet but still falling backwards. Yup butt over teakettle into the pool. Guy next to me also watching nearly died laughing, me I just took a sip of beer and saluted the attacker. Nice moves, good attitude and never touched the body builder with attitude, yet changed that guys momentum, and attitude. The attacker looked about an inch or two long from where I was laying enjoying the weather. Yellow Jacket for the knock down and win. Some lessons there that have remained to this day years later.

Regards
Brian King

My experience is a lot of the really big guys have never been in a fight and don’t know how to fight. If you think about it, how many 6’5 250 lb solid guys are you (a general you) going to mess with? Do you really want to find out if an NFL linebacker sized guy can fight or not? Unless there’s literally no other way, I’m not trying to find out.

 

[CB Jones]

6’5 250 lb solid guys

Sounds just about **** whooping size.

 

[ballen0351]

I knocked myself out on an air conditioner nobody else touched me does that count?

 

[pdg]

Im waiting for manover knock outs to become a term. under the same logic of manover kill, you perform some evasive action which causes the person you are fighting to knock themselves out.

I've said about this one before...

During a step sparring thing I did an upward elbow as the counter.

Going the other way, my opponent did the same counter, and punched herself in the ear.

Now if I can just get a bit more power in it and make it work consistently