NKF Karate US Open/JR Olympics start today!

[puunui]

It's correct either way.

Is it?

I simply choose to spell it in the same way my Tae Kwon Do teacher spelled it.

Who was your taekwondo teacher, and what organization did he belong to? Also, how far did you go in taekwondo?

It's no different than Korean folks living in English (or German, French, Spanish, etc) spelling their names as they want to spell it. For example, Kim Dae Jung could be spelled as Kim Daejung, Dae Jung Kim, or Daejung Kim, and any of those would be correct.

I don't know about that example, but here is another. The president of the WTF, President CHOUE Chungwon, spells his first name as one word in english instead of the usual two. I do not think it would be correct to spell it as Chung Won. Do you?

George Kotaka was always hungry for knowledge, adding anything that he could to improve his game. He regularly trained with other dojos in the area as well, even ones that were seen as his father's competitors.

I didn't know that he trained with other dojo in the area. Do you happen to know the names of any of the other teachers that he trained with here?

Replacing him on the US team isn't going to be easy at all, but thankfully, the US has a deep talent pool, and an excellent array of coaches.

What do you think about karate's chances of becoming an Olympic sport? Karate was short listed by the IOC for inclusion at the 2020 Olympic Games.

 

[Grenadier]

Is it?

As far as I (and many fellow Koreans) am concerned, yes. Again, the only *true* way of spelling it correctly would be in Korean, not in English. If someone wants to spell it Taekwondo, I do not question their spelling, since that's the way they choose to phonetically spell a Korean word.

To put it this way, would a Korean be incorrect in writing out the English word of "wrestling" as Reh-soo-ling as opposed to Reh-soo-ling-eu in Hangul? (Sorry, I don't have Hangul installed on this system) To me, it would be the same either way, since it's a phonetic spelling.

Who was your taekwondo teacher, and what organization did he belong to? Also, how far did you go in taekwondo?

This teacher was Master Steve Travis, part of the Chung Do Kwan organization, and I studied under him for three years while I was a college student, making it up to 2nd gup. My time with him was back in the late-80's and early-90's.

I don't know about that example, but here is another. The president of the WTF, President CHOUE Chungwon, spells his first name as one word in english instead of the usual two. I do not think it would be correct to spell it as Chung Won. Do you?

It's simply a matter of personal preference. After all, I've seen Jhoon Rhee's name spelled as Rhee Jhoon Goo. Also, there's Hee Il Cho / Cho Hee Il's name spelled with three "words" as opposed to two. I've also seen it spelled as Hee Il-Cho as well.

Looking at the city of Birmingham's phone book, under the last name of "Kim," I see several Korean folks spelling their Korean first names in one word form, as well as two words form. Who is to say that one is more correct than the other?

I didn't know that he trained with other dojo in the area. Do you happen to know the names of any of the other teachers that he trained with here?

Not off-hand. However, he's always looking for strong practitioners with whom to train. Some of the fellow US National Team members who train with him are from my old organization. You can always ask him, since it's probably a local call for you. If anything, it may be an opportunity for your guys as well.

What do you think about karate's chances of becoming an Olympic sport? Karate was short listed by the IOC for inclusion at the 2020 Olympic Games.

I doubt it will reach the Olympics, since the proposed rule changes to make it more appealing to the Olympics isn't going to go over too well with the mainstay Karate crowd. The competitions would be only for Kumite, and would have all sorts of additional equipment thrown into the fix.

Right now, the WKF competitions are seen as the pinnacle, and both Kata and Kumite are part of them. I'm not so sure that they'd want to exclude a large portion of their competitors.

Also, since Tae Kwon Do and Judo are already represented, it's not going to be in Karate's favor when the next decision rolls around.

 

[puunui]

As far as I (and many fellow Koreans) am concerned, yes. Again, the only *true* way of spelling it correctly would be in Korean, not in English. If someone wants to spell it Taekwondo, I do not question their spelling, since that's the way they choose to phonetically spell a Korean word.

True, what most koreans visualize when they hear the word "taekwondo" would be the hangul or hanja characters. But organizations do specify their preference. For example, the Kukkiwon and WTF have put out policy statements that taekwondo is to be spelled as one word, no hyphens.

To put it this way, would a Korean be incorrect in writing out the English word of "wrestling" as Reh-soo-ling as opposed to Reh-soo-ling-eu in Hangul? (Sorry, I don't have Hangul installed on this system) To me, it would be the same either way, since it's a phonetic spelling.

I would say that there is a proper or generally accepted way of spelling wrestling in hangul. I believe I have a book or two on it at home.

By the way, were you born in the US? If not how old were you when you came? I get the feeling you were either born here (less likely) or came to the US when you were still young.

This teacher was Master Steve Travis, part of the Chung Do Kwan organization, and I studied under him for three years while I was a college student, making it up to 2nd gup. My time with him was back in the late-80's and early-90's.

I am not familiar with him but I did google his name. Is he located in Indiana? If so, there is a GM Steve Travis affiliated with the Chung Do Kwan (so am I), who looks to be a student of GM Sell. They have a webpage http://natkda.com/default.aspx which shows students who have kukkiwon certification and they practice the taeguek poomsae. So I would think that he would spell it according to his organization's stated policy, which is as one word. The Chung Do Kwan Jang, GM UHM Woon Kyu, was president of the Kukkiwon from 2004-2009. I am also a regional director for the Chung Do Kwan.

It's simply a matter of personal preference. After all, I've seen Jhoon Rhee's name spelled as Rhee Jhoon Goo. Also, there's Hee Il Cho / Cho Hee Il's name spelled with three "words" as opposed to two. I've also seen it spelled as Hee Il-Cho as well.

I wasn't talking about the order of the name, but rather the joining of the two words that make up his first name into one word. President Choue's last name is Choue, not Won. His name is Chungwon CHOUE (first name first) or CHOUE Chungwon (last name first).

Looking at the city of Birmingham's phone book, under the last name of "Kim," I see several Korean folks spelling their Korean first names in one word form, as well as two words form. Who is to say that one is more correct than the other?

Say a person choose to spell their korean first name as one word as opposed to two. Do you think it is appropriate to spell it as two? Similarly, if the organization that your instructor comes from (Kukkiwon/WTF) has a policy of spelling taekwondo as one word, is it still ok to spell it as tae kwon do?

I doubt it will reach the Olympics, since the proposed rule changes to make it more appealing to the Olympics isn't going to go over too well with the mainstay Karate crowd. The competitions would be only for Kumite, and would have all sorts of additional equipment thrown into the fix.

What kind of equipment is the Olympic karate movement requiring? I ask because the olympic taekwondo world is very concerned about taekwondo losing its olympic status next year.

 

[Gorilla]

Karate is changing it rule set and from what I understand going to chest protectors. It would appear to me that they are trying for 2020. If its turkey karate has a good chance. Turkey is a big karate country.

 

[Grenadier]

True, what most koreans visualize when they hear the word "taekwondo" would be the hangul or hanja characters. But organizations do specify their preference. For example, the Kukkiwon and WTF have put out policy statements that taekwondo is to be spelled as one word, no hyphens.

Whatever the organization or more precisely, the school, decides, is how it should be spelled. If a school tells me that they wish for their students to spell it without spaces or hyphens, then it's correct for them. If they spell it with spaces, then that's correct for them.

I would say that there is a proper or generally accepted way of spelling wrestling in hangul. I believe I have a book or two on it at home.

T'was but one example of how an English word is spelled phonetically. I've seen things spelled both ways, depending on the region, or even personal preference.

By the way, were you born in the US? If not how old were you when you came? I get the feeling you were either born here (less likely) or came to the US when you were still young.

You are correct. Born in the USA, raised in a Korean household, and schooled in Korean by the various Korean parents of the community.

I am not familiar with him but I did google his name. Is he located in Indiana? If so, there is a GM Steve Travis affiliated with the Chung Do Kwan (so am I), who looks to be a student of GM Sell. They have a webpage http://natkda.com/default.aspx which shows students who have kukkiwon certification and they practice the taeguek poomsae. So I would think that he would spell it according to his organization's stated policy, which is as one word.

That is, indeed, Grand Master Travis. He used the spelling with the spaces, so I simply decided that I should use them as well, while training in his school. It's spelled that way on the patch as well:

http://natkda.com/TaeKwonDoInfo.aspx

Since then, that's the way I spell it. If I ever trained in a dojang of another system that uses the spelling without the spaces, then I'd spell it that way while training in that school.

The Chung Do Kwan Jang, GM UHM Woon Kyu, was president of the Kukkiwon from 2004-2009. I am also a regional director for the Chung Do Kwan.

Good to hear that. Martialtalk benefits from the knowledge that the various directors / advanced yudansha / yudanja can provide.

I wasn't talking about the order of the name, but rather the joining of the two words that make up his first name into one word. President Choue's last name is Choue, not Won. His name is Chungwon CHOUE (first name first) or CHOUE Chungwon (last name first).

I wasn't referring to the order, either. Again, I am pointing out that it's perfectly normal to spell first names with either one or two words, when using English. In Korean, of course, there's no debate about it, that each of the three syllables in the name has its own "word." It simply makes more sense to me, since it makes things easier to read.

Say a person choose to spell their korean first name as one word as opposed to two. Do you think it is appropriate to spell it as two?

If they want their first names spelled as one word in English, then that's how it should be spelled. If they want their first names spelled as two words in English, then it should be spelled as two.

In this case, it does make a difference, since some Koreans use one syllable in the first name as their actual first name in English and use the other syllable as the middle name, whereas some Koreans will give their two syllables in their Korean first name as their first name, and not use a middle name in English.

Again, it's a matter of how people wish to name themselves. Their choice.

Similarly, if the organization that your instructor comes from (Kukkiwon/WTF) has a policy of spelling taekwondo as one word, is it still ok to spell it as tae kwon do?

If the owner and chief instructor of the dojang wanted to spell it that way, then yes. His dojang, his rules. If I became closer to his rank through many years of training, then maybe I'd bring it up in a conversation, asking him why he chose to spell it that way, as opposed to the "official" spelling. Until then, I simply choose to respect his way. It does not affect the training in any way, shape or form.

If I trained in your school, then I would use the spelling without the spaces. Plain and simple. Your dojang, your rules.

What kind of equipment is the Olympic karate movement requiring? I ask because the olympic taekwondo world is very concerned about taekwondo losing its olympic status next year.

They were discussing using chest protectors (for both genders) and face shields, as well as a few other things to accommodate such equipment. I'll have to dig up my old notes on this, since I wrote things down back in 2008.

 

[puunui]

Whatever the organization or more precisely, the school, decides, is how it should be spelled. If a school tells me that they wish for their students to spell it without spaces or hyphens, then it's correct for them. If they spell it with spaces, then that's correct for them.

ok. I do it for organizations, not so much for individual dojang. For example, if discussing ITF, then I would spell it Taekwon-do or Taekwondo-Do, since that is how they prefer it.

T'was but one example of how an English word is spelled phonetically. I've seen things spelled both ways, depending on the region, or even personal preference.

ok.

You are correct. Born in the USA, raised in a Korean household, and schooled in Korean by the various Korean parents of the community.

Gotta keep that midichlorian count up. Use it or they leave you. I like the fact that you are honest about such things. Sometimes when I tell people what I can feel about them, they get really angry. I think a big part of certain portions of the martial arts journey involve developing and sharpening intuition and other incisive abilities.

That is, indeed, Grand Master Travis. He used the spelling with the spaces, so I simply decided that I should use them as well, while training in his school. It's spelled that way on the patch as well:

I was looking through his webpage. Looks like he is or was affiliated with GM Edward Sell. A lot of the things he does, GM Sell does too.

If the owner and chief instructor of the dojang wanted to spell it that way, then yes. His dojang, his rules. If I became closer to his rank through many years of training, then maybe I'd bring it up in a conversation, asking him why he chose to spell it that way, as opposed to the "official" spelling. Until then, I simply choose to respect his way. It does not affect the training in any way, shape or form.

if you asked him, I think he would say that that is the way his instructor did it. And if you asked GM Sell (his instructor) why he did it that way, he would say because that is the way it was spelled when they changed the name from taesoodo to taekwondo. Back in the 60's and early 70's, taekwondo was most frequently spelled as tae kwon do. I can almost tell what era an instructor comes by and where their development or progress ended by things like that. If someone doesn't want to conform the way they spell things to the accepted kukkiwon way, if they are practicing kukkiwon based taekwondo, then chances are that they are not updating or modernizing their technical curriculum either. You have been gone from that dojang for a while now, but I would almost bet you that the students are practicing in a substantially similar way as you were there.

You on the other hand have evolved your karate, to the point where you are doing things the NKF way, I want to say, or at least trying to head in that direction. If not, then you wouldn't be going to seminars with leaders from that organization. So you are on a different developmental path than your taekwondo teacher, who wishes to teach as he himself was taught. different strokes for different folks.

If I trained in your school, then I would use the spelling without the spaces. Plain and simple. Your dojang, your rules.

If you trained at my dojang, the issue would never come up. For some reason my students never ask about such things.

They were discussing using chest protectors (for both genders) and face shields, as well as a few other things to accommodate such equipment. I'll have to dig up my old notes on this, since I wrote things down back in 2008.

So they are going to make it more like taekwondo? That's an interesting approach to get into the Olympic Games, one that actually might work. Last year, wushu and karate were shortlisted for the 2020 Games, which those in taekwondo have taken to mean that taekwondo's days in the Olympic might be numbered. Why else would the IOC shortlist two sports which directly compete against taekwondo, if they were not strongly considering taking taekwondo out of the Olympic Games?

 

[mastercole]

The writing of Taekwondo as one word is not an organizational issue.

The Ministry of Culture, Sports and Tourism considers Taekwondo to be one of the important images of Korea, right along with Hangul, Hanbok and Kimchi. This ministry also believes that Taekwondo is written in English as one word. http://www.mcst.go.kr/html/symbolImg/eng/taekwondo/sec01.html .

So according to the South Korean Government, there is a correct way to write the South Korean compound word, Taekwondo in English. When a word becomes a compound word, it demonstrates the popular use of a series of words strung together to describe something of importance. A person may choose to neglect that aspect of Taekwondo's importance and write Taekwondo in English incorrectly, whatever suits them. By the way, the Hangul Society a group made up of scholars of the Korean language made recommendations on how well known Taekwondo terms should be romanized. They recommended that Taekwondo be romanized as "taekwondo."