trojanhorse
White Belt
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- Apr 8, 2008
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terrly965,
The name trojanhorse should answer your ? on my local...
The name trojanhorse should answer your ? on my local...
Nia Abdullah VS. Dianna Lopez
- Thread starter terryl965
- Start date
OP
- Thread Starter
- #42
terrly965,
The name trojanhorse should answer your ? on my local...
I do not know what that means, I am sending you a pm.
Thanks I am brain dead.
I hate to say I told you so, but Pay particular attenetion to posts 7 - 9 in this thread: http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49383
OP
- Thread Starter
- #44
Yes I remember that thread between you and me, I do want to point out Nia did go out and beat Diana or at least what I saw from the Video but the judges make the final call and they did the USAT and the Olympic dream a dis justice by there action in Des Moines this past weekend. Diana did her part by getting the one point in overtime and she is going to go and we need to be behind her efforts and that is that. Whether I or you or anybody else like it.
By the way Mango.man good call back then.
Adding insult to injury, Diana has been named as USA Today's Olympic Athlete of the Week http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/2008-04-08-lopez-athlete-of-week_N.htm
OP
- Thread Starter
- #46
Man what can you say, Not even a mention for Charlotte, it is all about the three. It would be nice to see Charlotte be the only one who comes home with a medal.
FearlessFreep
Senior Master
In looking at all this, the question that comes to mind is
1) For parents, is this a course you would recommend to your kids?
2) For instructors, is this a course you would recommend for your students?
What I mean by that... given the some capricious nature of scoring in the world of TKD Olympic sparring (not just in this instance as it is a story I often hear) is this something you would encourage your students to do... not just sparring in this style but pursuing a 'career' of it?
How much does your view of what "Tae Kwon Do" is? Does a serious athletic pursuit of this style of competition cross or mesh with your view of Tae Kwon Do training
1) For parents, is this a course you would recommend to your kids?
2) For instructors, is this a course you would recommend for your students?
What I mean by that... given the some capricious nature of scoring in the world of TKD Olympic sparring (not just in this instance as it is a story I often hear) is this something you would encourage your students to do... not just sparring in this style but pursuing a 'career' of it?
How much does your view of what "Tae Kwon Do" is? Does a serious athletic pursuit of this style of competition cross or mesh with your view of Tae Kwon Do training
OP
- Thread Starter
- #49
I remember Samantha is a great athlete as well, Charlotte will be over look and that is to bad, she has trained just as hard as the rest and has devoted her life to TKD just like them but does not have the name.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #50
As an instructor we are more traditional with are training, that does not mean one cannot become effeant at playing the game. I encourage my student to be truthful for thenself and there action. One of my student knew he got beat and handed the gold to the other player and ask for the silver the ref. told him he won the match 5-2 and his response was I was in there and he dominated me so I did not win. All the refs. in the ring stood and applaud him for the courage to do what he believe to be right, as for me all I said was you have learn well and I thank you.
USAT is THE ONLY avenue to the Olympic Games. Unless that changes, and as long as my kid has dreams (realistic or not) of being a TKD Olympian than we have no choice.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #52
Exactly your Samantha and my Zachary both have dreams for the Olympics whether it ever comes or not is one thing but the dream is always there for them and we must all have dreams.
No. Never. If someone I know wants to do it, fine; I wouldn't try to dissuade them. But to me, the Olympics represent the kiss of death to any practical combat system.
Not even a little... no, it's worse than that. My view of TKD represents one pole, Olympic sparring the other, and the two are not just mutually incompatible but antagonistic. Again, that's just me. But no, no, no.
FearlessFreep
Senior Master
With all respect to MM and Master Terry, in their goals for their children, I find myself more of a mind with exile
On a practical level, speaking as an instructor, I'm not an Olympic-style guy. If my student wants that, I'll send them somewhere else.
In the 80's, there was a student who wanted to fight full contact kickboxing. Our instructor was no more equipped to train him that way than the man in the moon. He conned this student into believing that he could train him for it. In the process, he broke this guy's ribs during training. Not all instructors can teach everything. As Clint Eastwood said, "A man's gotta know his limitations.
In the 80's, there was a student who wanted to fight full contact kickboxing. Our instructor was no more equipped to train him that way than the man in the moon. He conned this student into believing that he could train him for it. In the process, he broke this guy's ribs during training. Not all instructors can teach everything. As Clint Eastwood said, "A man's gotta know his limitations.
No disrespect taken FF. I understand the difference between sport TKD and martial art TKD. I don't think I have ever seen you bashing sport TKD. I do take offense at those that do. I do not bash their version, I do not see their need to bash my version. Just understand that they are 2 very different things, that share a common name.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #57
But I teach both of course I have help with the Olympic game. But I have been able to do both with great results, so it is possible and alot of hard work.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #58
Again so you are saying what I do is out of bounds basically. Funny U thought we was one in the same, what is good for the common purpose of TKD. I guess one can not do both, but wait I do and people know I am able to bring out the best on both side tradition and sport.
Sorry had to say that, I am not special and we do get penalize alot for being to aggressive at tournaments but we do manage to be productive either way.
Not at all, Terry. I've indicated clearly in my post that I'm not making judgments about anyone else's take on TKD, and that, while I don't see Olympic-style TKD as being healthy for the approach to TKD that I want to pursue, but I thought I was being very clear that I wasn't passing any judgments on anyone else's approach to the issue.
I think Olympic TKD is corrupt (as this very thread helps illustrate), reflecting organizational corruption, nothing to do with the competitors themselves (just as in that horrific figure skating scandal a number of years ago). And I think that the very aggressive institutional promotion of Olympic TKD by the Korean agencies that dominate the way sport TKD operates has lead to a severe devaluation of the martial content of TKD, not just in the point-scoring system of WTF-sponsored tournaments, but in the technical pressure exerted by the KKW (as I read it) to push the TKD curriculum in the direction of sport use, rather than combat application. But that says nothing about any particular individual who chooses to participate in WTF sponsored tournaments. The problem isn't with the participants, but with the Olympic administrators and profiteers, and with the subordination of combat relevance to sport spectacle by TKD Central in Seoul. I'm not sure why you think what I said was a reflection on your own involvement in any way.
My point was just that (i) I wouldn't recommend, to anyone who asked me, getting involved in a supposedly competitive activity which is as subject to rigging and vote-swapping as we've seen Olympic sports in general to be over the past several years, with the disappointment, frustration and sheer unfairness that has resulted, and (ii) that the Olympic TKD organizations are driving a redefinition of TKD which is fundamanentally incompatible with the view of TKD that I hold. MangoMan actually said something very close to what I believe—they are two fundamentally different things going by different names—but the problem I see is that over time, the perception of TKD as exclusively sport spectacle will make it very difficult for people who wants to teach the combat art to attract clients to their dojangs, because the image of TKD as ring competition will have become so widely and deeply ingrained. But again, this passes no judgments on anyone who chooses to participate in such contests—reread my post, Terry, and you'll see that I was speaking for my choices alone.
Steel Tiger
Senior Master
Now you know I am not a TKD practitioner but I have been reading this thread with some interest and FF's questions made me think. I cannot say whether or not I would recommend Olympic competition to my students because I have no experience in that style of martial art activity.
However, looking at it from the point of view of a parent, I can see that this might appeal. It is a physical activity, something we are being told we need more of (especially children); it can lead to prestigious Olympic involvement; and it is safe as far as martial arts go. Any parent who saw that fight and didn't have any real understanding of MAs would be quite happy to let their children participate. The perception would be that there is no chance of getting hurt.
And that is the real problem with Olympic TKD. It presents a certain face to the general public and it is not the same face that the practitioners see. This situation with the Lopez family is a continuation of that. In order to have a bunch of happy snaps and be able to say something about 100 years since a family represented in the same sport, USAT has furthered a very unfortunate stereotype that those outside (and many inside) the martial art community hold with regard to TKD.
I have a quick question of my own. When I was watching the match, apart from wishing they would do something, I kept wondering why no one used a sharp and quick front kick, snap kick call it what you will (I know it as a Crane kick). Can anyone tell me why, especially with the arms down by the sides?
