Newbie Training Question

[EdwardQ]

I been training TDK for about 3 months and I have a question about training.

At my dojang the Advance belts and beginning belts are in the same class. There is about 15 Black belts, about 7-9 Blue Stripe and above, and 2 green, 3 yellow and me yellow stripe... It feels like sometimes the beginning class is a after thought. There are times where there would be a drill on something that I havent even learned yet.

For example, doing a drill where everyone in a large circle holding a paddle and takeing turns doing Axe Kick to each paddle. Then jumpping front kick to each paddle.
And then the other day the class was split in 2, Black stripes and above and Red belts and below. The Red belts and below worked on the 1st 4 forms. We did the 1st form quickly, when the black belt assistant asked if everyone knew the 2nd form, I replied no mam, she told me do what everyone else was doing. We did the 2nd form twice and then the same for the 3rd form. Then we worked on the 4th form the rest of the class. While I was doing the 2nd and 3rd forms and at times the 4th one, I was thinking what good is this doing me? I didn't know the moves, like how to knife hand, spear attack, and the correct stances. She just called out the numbers, then stopped after a few and then restarted did a few more movements, stopped and repeat.

Am I just thinking about this is the wrong way? or Is this a normal training session for a beginner?

Thanks..

Ed.

 

[Twin Fist]

no, it isnt normal

your school sucks

change schools

 

[Drac]

It doesn't seem right to me...Have you ever checked out any other TKD schools?? Maybe you should to see how their beginner class is structured..

 

[Gary Crawford]

I have seen schools do this and it works out fine for some,but not for most. You need to talk to your instructor about it and ask him what he expects from you right now and go from there. If he or she is the type that tries to blow out beginner students, then I say go elsewhere. But do try to stick it out as long as you can.

 

[rlobrecht]

our school doesn't work this way. Everyone does the lower belt patterns, but as you get to a pattern above your belt, you are bowed out, and move to the back of the class to practice on your own, or with one of the junior instructors.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

our school doesn't work this way. Everyone does the lower belt patterns, but as you get to a pattern above your belt, you are bowed out, and move to the back of the class to practice on your own, or with one of the junior instructors.

That is the same way we do it. Our school does not look kindly on people doing forms above your belt level even if the student has learned them in their own time. There is a reason that each belt has a form that should be learned and graded before moving to the next.

 

[Drac]

our school doesn't work this way. Everyone does the lower belt patterns, but as you get to a pattern above your belt, you are bowed out, and move to the back of the class to practice on your own, or with one of the junior instructors.

Yes, that's how it was in the Shorin-Ryu dojo back in the day..We started with the first kata and then moved to the next etc..etc...When you preformed what you knew, you started over again and the senior students moved on..

That is the same way we do it. Our school does not look kindly on people doing forms above your belt level even if the student has learned them in their own time. There is a reason that each belt has a form that should be learned and graded before moving to the next.

Yup...

 

[rlobrecht]

I forgot to mention that our school has five classes. It works something like this:
1 - White to White with Yellow Stripe
2 - Yellow to Green
3 - Green to Blue
4 - Blue to Red
5 - Black

But we're flexible about it. There are a few members, generally teens or lower belt siblings of higher belt students, which sometimes attend a class that is higher than their belt. Higher belts are allowed to attend lower belt classes, and when you get to Red (and then Red with Black stripes) you're encouraged to attend to lower belt classes to help, and refresh yourself on those patterns (we have to repeat all the patterns for 1st Dan.)

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I been training TDK for about 3 months and I have a question about training.

At my dojang the Advance belts and beginning belts are in the same class. There is about 15 Black belts, about 7-9 Blue Stripe and above, and 2 green, 3 yellow and me yellow stripe... It feels like sometimes the beginning class is a after thought. There are times where there would be a drill on something that I havent even learned yet.

For example, doing a drill where everyone in a large circle holding a paddle and takeing turns doing Axe Kick to each paddle. Then jumpping front kick to each paddle.
And then the other day the class was split in 2, Black stripes and above and Red belts and below. The Red belts and below worked on the 1st 4 forms. We did the 1st form quickly, when the black belt assistant asked if everyone knew the 2nd form, I replied no mam, she told me do what everyone else was doing. We did the 2nd form twice and then the same for the 3rd form. Then we worked on the 4th form the rest of the class. While I was doing the 2nd and 3rd forms and at times the 4th one, I was thinking what good is this doing me? I didn't know the moves, like how to knife hand, spear attack, and the correct stances. She just called out the numbers, then stopped after a few and then restarted did a few more movements, stopped and repeat.

Am I just thinking about this is the wrong way? or Is this a normal training session for a beginner?

Thanks..

Ed.

What you describe sounds like block teaching. The classes cover advanced, intermediate, and basic material in different proportions on different nights.

The basic idea is that as you move through the colored belts, you get instruction in the full curriculum, but are only tested on the material appropriate for your belt. By the time you get to black belt, you have learned everything and are ready to test. The same as if the curriculum progressed in a linear fashion.

The benefit of this is that it prevents a student from testing and then never touching the material again until he or she needs it for their BB. The drawback is that the beginning student does not have the opportunity to work exclusively on the basic material and get it down solid before moving on to more advanced material.

Personally, I am not a fan of this style of teaching. Is it bad? Depends on the material being taught, the person teaching it, and who it is being taught to.

Some material simply cannot be taught in this manner. I would never teach hapkido in this way, for example. Too many of the advanced techniques require a high level of proficiency in more basic ones, not to mention the student needing to be able to move properly. Taekwondo? Well, I suppose you could (your teacher does), but I do not believe that you should.

Daniel

 

[Twin Fist]

you are so much nicer than me Daniel

 

[terryl965]

I been training TDK for about 3 months and I have a question about training.

At my dojang the Advance belts and beginning belts are in the same class. There is about 15 Black belts, about 7-9 Blue Stripe and above, and 2 green, 3 yellow and me yellow stripe... It feels like sometimes the beginning class is a after thought. There are times where there would be a drill on something that I havent even learned yet.

For example, doing a drill where everyone in a large circle holding a paddle and takeing turns doing Axe Kick to each paddle. Then jumpping front kick to each paddle.
And then the other day the class was split in 2, Black stripes and above and Red belts and below. The Red belts and below worked on the 1st 4 forms. We did the 1st form quickly, when the black belt assistant asked if everyone knew the 2nd form, I replied no mam, she told me do what everyone else was doing. We did the 2nd form twice and then the same for the 3rd form. Then we worked on the 4th form the rest of the class. While I was doing the 2nd and 3rd forms and at times the 4th one, I was thinking what good is this doing me? I didn't know the moves, like how to knife hand, spear attack, and the correct stances. She just called out the numbers, then stopped after a few and then restarted did a few more movements, stopped and repeat.

Am I just thinking about this is the wrong way? or Is this a normal training session for a beginner?

Thanks..

Ed.

Sounds like he does not have enough B.B.'s to teach the class seperately so he is doing block teaching and that is just not right for all the students paying for good training. Have you been able to sit down with the head instructor and voice your concerns?

 

[EdwardQ]

I have voiced them to the same BB that leader the last class. I asked him if it was normal to work on styles (styles I refering to kicks,etc) that we haven't been shown yet like Axe kick. He replied the stuff we did in that class was conditioning and no its not normal.

Then Tues it was the same BB that I talked to and he assigned a junior BB to lead the forms. I say junior because she just recieved her 1st Dan about month ago.

I been thinking about talking to the Head instructor, but when I do try I don't get a chance to because he so busy. The class he teaches (Jiu-Jitsu) starts 5 mins after my class ends By his request when I started I have read "Zen in the Martial Arts" because I am a older student (40).

How should I approach the head instructor? I really don't want to sound like I'm whining. But what I'm gathering from your responses is that some thing is amist.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Just to clarify something: a black belt who has only had her belt for a month is not a junior black belt. A junior black belt is generally applied to children who have learned the curriculum, and whom the school wishes to promote (there is profit in those testing fees), but who are not old enough to really be a black belt.

I do not know that I would say that anything is amiss, so much as it sounds like the taekwondo program is poorly organized. The fact that the head instructor does not have his hand in it at all is also problematic.

One question: is the school ATA?

Daniel

 

[EdwardQ]

Sorry I didn't mean to belittle the rank. I mean a newly earned Black Belt.

I beleve the school is WTF. This school doesn't have testing fees.. When I asked about the Black Belt fees (only because I remember people describing thier fees on the forums), I was told only have to pay for the new uniform and the registration.

 

[terryl965]

I have voiced them to the same BB that leader the last class. I asked him if it was normal to work on styles (styles I refering to kicks,etc) that we haven't been shown yet like Axe kick. He replied the stuff we did in that class was conditioning and no its not normal.

Then Tues it was the same BB that I talked to and he assigned a junior BB to lead the forms. I say junior because she just recieved her 1st Dan about month ago.

I been thinking about talking to the Head instructor, but when I do try I don't get a chance to because he so busy. The class he teaches (Jiu-Jitsu) starts 5 mins after my class ends By his request when I started I have read "Zen in the Martial Arts" because I am a older student (40).

How should I approach the head instructor? I really don't want to sound like I'm whining. But what I'm gathering from your responses is that some thing is amist.

I am confused you say and I quote (How do I approach the head instructor) Sorry but you are paying for a service and I bet he was available to get you signed up. I would always make time for any student or parent with concerns, are you sure you are at the right school for you?

 

[VinsonTKD]

This doesn't seem too right to me neither. If this is a normal routine - then it's not for sure! If this is a one time thing, then maybe there is a reason. If you want to talk to the instructor, I would first ask him/her for an explanation of why they are doing it that way (especially when it's above your form level. Maybe there is some odd explaination for why they are doing it.... then I would just explain your frustration to him (you are a paying customer. If you leave then they will lose your monthly income)...
Good luck.
Keep us updated.

 

[EdwardQ]

terryl965 -- I guess what I mean is how do I talk to him about it.


I did talk to him after class today. Told him that I felt like the lower belts were just a after thought during class. Then I used the examples I used in this post. And told him that the only reason I know the 1st form is because I also attend the makeup/extra class on Saturday.

He was receptive to me. He stated that I was not the 1st one to come to him about it. He stated that he going to have a training session with the instructors and any BB that would like to help instruct next weekend to remind them that the lower belts are the important ones in class because we need to learn the basics. Just like the Yen in the Martal Arts states, a tree with weak roots will fall over.

The school is in 2 blocks, One for beginners and one for advanced (blue+). For this Test block (he would like us to only test every 2 blocks (4 months). Beginners Test on Yellow and the Advanced test on Blue.

 

[DBZ]

our school doesn't work this way. Everyone does the lower belt patterns, but as you get to a pattern above your belt, you are bowed out, and move to the back of the class to practice on your own, or with one of the junior instructors.

This is what we do aswell

 

[Earl Weiss]

you are so much nicer than me Daniel

You were right the first time. Even If it's block teaching it sucks.

Curriculums should be based so that each step builds upon lower steps after each lower step has reached a certain level of proficiency.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

you are so much nicer than me Daniel

Perhaps, but I am not disagreeing with you.

Daniel