New to Martial Arts

[oftheherd1]

Some hitting and contact is fine. Although I don't want to constantly get the crap beat out of me either. One other issue I forgot to mention health wise is I have some back pain issues. So any martial art that requires me to pick up and throw 300 pound dudes may be out of the question. Thoughts?

I don't know what your back issues are so take this with a grain of salt. But in my experience, most throws don't require you to pick someone up to throw them; its more about leverage. I've been sitting here trying to think of any while I was typing. The closest I can think of is a step behind the back and a short stick to the front of the neck to a throw over the shoulder. Even then there is more leverage used bending the knees and hip to hip contact. But that is an advanced technique anyway.

Note some of the answers about fitness, especially post #47. Those things may not work for you, but they may be worth a try.

 

[FriedRice]

I don't know what your back issues are so take this with a grain of salt. But in my experience, most throws don't require you to pick someone up to throw them; its more about leverage. I've been sitting here trying to think of any while I was typing. The closest I can think of is a step behind the back and a short stick to the front of the neck to a throw over the shoulder. Even then there is more leverage used bending the knees and hip to hip contact. But that is an advanced technique anyway.

Note some of the answers about fitness, especially post #47. Those things may not work for you, but they may be worth a try.

If he has back problems, it's still going to hurt his back....esp. when he's new to it and don't know how to leverage throws very well = he's going to strain and use power much more.

There's usually no throwing in beginner's BJJ, but it's still going to hurt his back, esp. the lower back.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Some hitting and contact is fine. Although I don't want to constantly get the crap beat out of me either. One other issue I forgot to mention health wise is I have some back pain issues. So any martial art that requires me to pick up and throw 300 pound dudes may be out of the question. Thoughts?

Ive got back issues, and i can throw people just fine. Youre not using all your strength to do the throw, so its not as bad as it sounds. Just make sure you get the positioning right om any shoulder or hip throws.

 

[oftheherd1]

If he has back problems, it's still going to hurt his back....esp. when he's new to it and don't know how to leverage throws very well = he's going to strain and use power much more.

There's usually no throwing in beginner's BJJ, but it's still going to hurt his back, esp. the lower back.

Shame on BJJ.

You are right of course, up to a point, and very much dependent on what his issues are. That's why I told him to take my comments with a grain of salt. Who knows? He may not be able to take any MA until he takes care of his back problems. Or his problems may respond very well to the right type of stretching and exercise most MA require.

A very good course of action for him would be to discuss any physical injuries/problems he has with the school teacher, and follow the teacher's advice on how to overcome them, if they can be overcome.

 

[FriedRice]

Shame on BJJ.

You are right of course, up to a point, and very much dependent on what his issues are. That's why I told him to take my comments with a grain of salt. Who knows? He may not be able to take any MA until he takes care of his back problems. Or his problems may respond very well to the right type of stretching and exercise most MA require.

A very good course of action for him would be to discuss any physical injuries/problems he has with the school teacher, and follow the teacher's advice on how to overcome them, if they can be overcome.

What's going to happen though, is most people will get excited and their adrenaline takes over common sense, esp. in the beginning. They will over exert themselves. Good news though, there's rarely any throwing in BJJ unless it's Judo Night, which most BJJ gyms don't even have.

A lot of my injuries were from the 1st year. No matter how sucky you are, you still want to be the hardest hitter of the sucky crowd = bad techniques w/full power = more injuries. In BJJ, it's going to usually happen during sparring....when 2 white belts meet.

 

[Yokozuna514]

What's going to happen though, is most people will get excited and their adrenaline takes over common sense, esp. in the beginning. They will over exert themselves. Good news though, there's rarely any throwing in BJJ unless it's Judo Night, which most BJJ gyms don't even have.

A lot of my injuries were from the 1st year. No matter how sucky you are, you still want to be the hardest hitter of the sucky crowd = bad techniques w/full power = more injuries. In BJJ, it's going to usually happen during sparring....when 2 white belts meet.

The most dangerous belts at the dojo are white belts. They don't know enough to know that what they are doing is most likely wrong and can cause their sparring partner a great deal of pain or injury.

 

[Buka]

The most dangerous belts at the dojo are white belts. They don't know enough to know that what they are doing is most likely wrong and can cause their sparring partner a great deal of pain or injury.

This. ^

 

[oftheherd1]

When I studied TKD under Jhoon Goo Rhee, he would not allow an individual to spar until they were 9th gup. And only then when he thought you were ready for it. We got the usual bruises but I can't remember anybody being injured.

 

[Robert Agar-Hutton]

As others have said, visit each school of interest and choose the one that's right for YOU.

However, if there's no hard sparring, walk out the door.

I totally agree with Hanzou on the go to each school point - have a trial lesson or two and see what you enjoy. (I'm assuming that all are equally affordable).

I don't agree with the 'hard sparring' comment - as a beginner you should not be doing anything more than light sparring (and some schools of martial arts don't let people spar until they have a reasonable skill set) - sparring is overrated if what you want is self defence - self defence is NEVER a 'fight' - that's a different thing - which if you want to do, that's fine but it's different.

 

[Yokozuna514]

I don't agree with the 'hard sparring' comment - as a beginner you should not be doing anything more than light sparring (and some schools of martial arts don't let people spar until they have a reasonable skill set) - sparring is overrated if what you want is self defence - self defence is NEVER a 'fight' - that's a different thing - which if you want to do, that's fine but it's different.

I understand this is your opinion. I’m from a Kyokushin background so will have to disagree about sparring being overrated. That is simply not my experience in fact I believe it helps students find the truth in their training. How can you know if anything you are learning will actually work I’d you do not spar with a live non compliant opponent?

 

[Robert Agar-Hutton]

How can you know if anything you are learning will actually work I’d you do not spar with a live non compliant opponent?

I think sparring is great for learning if what you do works against someone who is doing the same thing - but self defence should not be like that - the aim in self defence is to survive, not to 'spar' - sparring also has rules and etiquette both of which can be problematic.

BTW - I enjoy sparring, I just think it is a sport.

 

[Chrisinmd]

Jeff Gordon's school ain't going to throw you into the shark tank, unless you wanted to spar or go into their fighter's class. You'll be doing lots of cardio + hitting pads for months, learning. Maybe light contact with the pads hitting you back to work on your defense. The only pain you should experience is that of holding the pads, that you'll get used to. There should be a separate "sparring class". Most people who train, don't go to this class, which is normal.

If you have back problems, then you def. don't want to do Jitsu. It's going to jack up your back. You need to strengthen your core decently before getting into it.

Went to my first free trial boxing class at Jeff Gordon school today. They totally kicked my *** with the cardio to begin the class. 10 minutes of rope jumping followed by alternating jumping jacks, pushups and some jumping exercise I cant remember the name of right now. Then we worked on how to move out feet in the ring and then throwing punches with our partner holding the pad. Problem was I was so exhausted after the cardio I could barely make it through the boxing drill. I think I sweated out a bucket of sweat! Hell of a workout. I was pretty impressed with the school. Lots of people there and good coaches and facility

 

[FriedRice]

I think sparring is great for learning if what you do works against someone who is doing the same thing - but self defence should not be like that - the aim in self defence is to survive, not to 'spar' - sparring also has rules and etiquette both of which can be problematic.

BTW - I enjoy sparring, I just think it is a sport.

Answer = spar at full power for knockouts if you think it's inadequate.

 

[Yokozuna514]

I think sparring is great for learning if what you do works against someone who is doing the same thing - but self defence should not be like that - the aim in self defence is to survive, not to 'spar' - sparring also has rules and etiquette both of which can be problematic.

BTW - I enjoy sparring, I just think it is a sport.

Sparring in a self defence context is very hard to do. SD techniques are generally meant to incapacitate, maim or kill your opponent. Less lethal techniques are also meant to injure and escape so sparring is not typically a focus of SD training unless a sport element is introduced and the techniques taught are meant to stay engaged or to safely incapacitate your partner. I think that would be useful to test some SD techniques but there would have to be a give and take In the curriculum as to what can safely be practiced with sparring.

 

[Yokozuna514]

Answer = spar at full power for knockouts if you think it's inadequate.

Dude, your straight forward responses are hilarious at times. This is definitely one of them .

 

[FriedRice]

Went to my first free trial boxing class at Jeff Gordon school today. They totally kicked my *** with the cardio to begin the class. 10 minutes of rope jumping followed by alternating jumping jacks, pushups and some jumping exercise I cant remember the name of right now. Then we worked on how to move out feet in the ring and then throwing punches with our partner holding the pad. Problem was I was so exhausted after the cardio I could barely make it through the boxing drill. I think I sweated out a bucket of sweat! Hell of a workout. I was pretty impressed with the school. Lots of people there and good coaches and facility

Glad to hear that. As an older guy, you need to take certain precautions, otherwise you'll quit or get injured, then quit. Not many older people can handle it. I've seen many come and go, quickly, in the past 10+ years at a gym bigger than IFC. These classes are mostly populated by men in their 20's for a reason. I'm older than you and when I first started, I had to take breaks during the warmup and girls would run by smirking. even the warmup is a COMPETITION. It took a few months to get used to the cardio and build up gradually. You should wear a back brace. Even w/o a back problem, I started having some in the lower back due to my core not being strong enough, and it's very hip intensive. Then get decent gear and safety stuff such as handwraps, ankle brace (those Muay Thai sock like ones).....then drink a protein shake within 10 mins after the class. This should be the minimum if you plan to make it for at least 1 year.

That jumping exercise was probably burpees. From standing, jump and spread/stretched into pushup position then spring up as fast as possible to a light vertical jump with hands raised = 1. Goal should be 50 in 2 minutes, 30 sec rest then another 50 in 2 mins.

 

[Hanzou]

Went to my first free trial boxing class at Jeff Gordon school today. They totally kicked my *** with the cardio to begin the class. 10 minutes of rope jumping followed by alternating jumping jacks, pushups and some jumping exercise I cant remember the name of right now. Then we worked on how to move out feet in the ring and then throwing punches with our partner holding the pad. Problem was I was so exhausted after the cardio I could barely make it through the boxing drill. I think I sweated out a bucket of sweat! Hell of a workout. I was pretty impressed with the school. Lots of people there and good coaches and facility

That's some good stuff right there. You can't defend yourself if you're out of shape. Just be careful and don't over exert yourself.

 

[Hanzou]

I think sparring is great for learning if what you do works against someone who is doing the same thing - but self defence should not be like that - the aim in self defence is to survive, not to 'spar' - sparring also has rules and etiquette both of which can be problematic.

BTW - I enjoy sparring, I just think it is a sport.

No, sparring is great for learning if what you do works period. Additionally, it shapes your personal style and allows you to get comfortable in how you express the art. For example, I have a rather broad frame with powerful legs (due to soccer and football), yet long arms. My strength in Bjj is arm chokes and kimura locks, since I have long arms that can snake around necks and arms easier, and my strong legs can lock people in place. I'm so-so at Triangle Chokes because my knees aren't great and I'm not all that flexible, and it took me awhile to get a good closed guard.

How did I figure that out? Sparring. Hard sparring. If I hadn't figured that out in sparring, I'd probably be dead right now, because I wouldn't have had time to figure it out when some crazed guy came at me with a hammer. Fortunately, I had spent extra time on the mat learning the triangle choke, and I started my rolls from guard in order to practice it under the pressure of sparring. So when the time came for me to actually protect my life, my so-so triangle choke saved my ***.

 

[Chrisinmd]

Glad to hear that. As an older guy, you need to take certain precautions, otherwise you'll quit or get injured, then quit. Not many older people can handle it. I've seen many come and go, quickly, in the past 10+ years at a gym bigger than IFC. These classes are mostly populated by men in their 20's for a reason. I'm older than you and when I first started, I had to take breaks during the warmup and girls would run by smirking. even the warmup is a COMPETITION. It took a few months to get used to the cardio and build up gradually. You should wear a back brace. Even w/o a back problem, I started having some in the lower back due to my core not being strong enough, and it's very hip intensive. Then get decent gear and safety stuff such as handwraps, ankle brace (those Muay Thai sock like ones).....then drink a protein shake within 10 mins after the class. This should be the minimum if you plan to make it for at least 1 year.

That jumping exercise was probably burpees. From standing, jump and spread/stretched into pushup position then spring up as fast as possible to a light vertical jump with hands raised = 1. Goal should be 50 in 2 minutes, 30 sec rest then another 50 in 2 mins.

You are correct Burpees is what they were called.

 

[Chrisinmd]

A buddy of mine used to carry gloves in his pocket in case he had to punch someone in a fight.

Fun times!

Did he carry 2 sets of boxing gloves? One for him and one for who he wants to fight? The problem I would see with this is getting the other person to agree to a boxing match. Why would I want to agree to your style of fighting? Maybe im a wrestler or some other fighting style instead.