New to MA, Question about a school/instructor

[Tames D]

Sorry to gravedig, but before I went to the class I Googled it and this thread came up. I went to the free demo thing tonight, and I hate to say it, but that bad review is quite accurate, even 5 years after this thread. Granted, several thing were different, but in all my experience with the demo was quite similar to that guy's.

The Sifu still uses the Mike Tyson analogy. He uses it to demonstrate how to stop a hook, and any other way to do it he claimed as wrong. He was extremely arrogant about his art. He also asked how I would block in my art (Kung Fu San Soo) and I did a left up-windmill block and strike to the throat. He proceeded to tell me that I was wrong and that I would get hit (though a C-hand strike to the throat would stop even Mike Tyson if properly executed).

Then he showed his way of doing it (after being fully prepared and expecting a hook.) Pretty much the rest of it mirror's the other guy's experience. He bashed on my art while saying his is flawless (I do like it, just not the instructor).

I did, however, try the rest of the class and enjoyed it, even if I sucked terribly (so different from San Soo). Everyone else was very nice and willing to work with me.

Overall, I will be hesitant to practice there, though I do like Wing Chun a lot, just not the instructor.

It's too bad this wing chun 'expert' is so arrogant and ineffective. Stay with KFSS, you'll be much better off. We're not so insecure. If you're going to train in Wing Chun, I would suggest a WSL instructor or move to Southern California and train with Gary Lam.

 

[ItstheFNG]

Yes, but im adding that the technique is the easy part.

Most knockdowns/knockouts from throat strikes come from full pelt punches or elbows, for strikes to the sides of the neck mostly forearms and again, punches. Then of course theirs chops and hammerfists, but the difference is still between all those, using hard surfaces with body mechanics and possibly gravity behind them, and a mostly arm powered thrust with the index finger and thumb joints.

Theres a vague area between actual damage and immediate effect. Hitting with the joints between your index finger and thumb is only practical if the situation permits it to be practical, even if the technique is perfect in both cases.
As an entry to manual strangulation, however, it gains a few points in favor of being useful provided theres a solid surface nearby to pin the person against.

The throat strike is not and never was meant to be a knockout strike, it is meant to stun the opponent, do damage, and incite a reaction that will allow me to continue on to the rest of the body that was left open. I could have just as easily palmed to the nose, gouged the eyes, slapped the groin, uppercut the chin, punch the solar plexus, etc. I just demonstrated the throat strike as if I were to fight a large guy, I would probably want to do the most amount of damage possible with my first strike to end it that much sooner. KFSS isn't linear at all. But I don't see why you are attacking that one part of my post completely out of context. My issue is, he blatantly told me that what I have been taught and what I teach is wrong. That is disrespectful to me, my instructors, my school, and my art. The arrogance of that man is unbecoming of a martial artist, and simply put, pisses me off. I will be very hard pressed to pay that man to teach me Wing Chun.

 

[ItstheFNG]

It's too bad this wing chun 'expert' is so arrogant and ineffective. Stay with KFSS, you'll be much better off. We're not so insecure. If you're going to train in Wing Chun, I would suggest a WSL instructor or move to Southern California and train with Gary Lam.

Unfortunately, I moved a few weeks ago from my home town of Salmon, Idaho to Raleigh, NC. No San Soo around here. I honestly would open up a school here, but I am going into the military quite soon, so I can't make a commitment. I will be trying Krav Maga tomorrow, and the day after another style of Kung Fu.

 

[Cyriacus]

The throat strike is not and never was meant to be a knockout strike, it is meant to stun the opponent, do damage, and incite a reaction that will allow me to continue on to the rest of the body that was left open. I could have just as easily palmed to the nose, gouged the eyes, slapped the groin, uppercut the chin, punch the solar plexus, etc. I just demonstrated the throat strike as if I were to fight a large guy, I would probably want to do the most amount of damage possible with my first strike to end it that much sooner. KFSS isn't linear at all. But I don't see why you are attacking that one part of my post completely out of context. My issue is, he blatantly told me that what I have been taught and what I teach is wrong. That is disrespectful to me, my instructors, my school, and my art. The arrogance of that man is unbecoming of a martial artist, and simply put, pisses me off. I will be very hard pressed to pay that man to teach me Wing Chun.

Mate, strikes to the throat can and do knock people down or out if you hit then hard enough. Its hitting with the index finger and thumb joints thatll have variable results, specifically. As for a stun, that still assumes they care about it. If its preemptive, sure. But after things kick off, anything based on pain (like eye gouging, broken noses, slapped groins...) or the presumption of flinching towards something (like dropping the hands after being struck in the groin or being struck in the solar plexus) becomes very, very unreliable. This has nothing to do with you or your training, it has to do with the results of people being struck in various ways. Damage and leverage never stop working unless youre unable to employ them. Pain and 'expected' reactions arent reliable.

Im not attacking you or your post, and im not taking anything out of context. I was commenting on your one singular statement. The rest was fine, mate.
If you want to do as much damage is possible, a more forceful strike will get you there faster.
Hell, a hard enough hit, or enough hits in sheer volume to the throat can kill you. Its not exactly a well defended part of the body.

 

[StormShadow]

a bite on the ear will work if properly executed

 

[ItstheFNG]

Mate, strikes to the throat can and do knock people down or out if you hit then hard enough. Its hitting with the index finger and thumb joints thatll have variable results, specifically. As for a stun, that still assumes they care about it. If its preemptive, sure. But after things kick off, anything based on pain (like eye gouging, broken noses, slapped groins...) or the presumption of flinching towards something (like dropping the hands after being struck in the groin or being struck in the solar plexus) becomes very, very unreliable. This has nothing to do with you or your training, it has to do with the results of people being struck in various ways. Damage and leverage never stop working unless youre unable to employ them. Pain and 'expected' reactions arent reliable.

Im not attacking you or your post, and im not taking anything out of context. I was commenting on your one singular statement. The rest was fine, mate.
If you want to do as much damage is possible, a more forceful strike will get you there faster.
Hell, a hard enough hit, or enough hits in sheer volume to the throat can kill you. Its not exactly a well defended part of the body.

I am well aware the effects of a throat strike, but my art does not rely on that being the fight finisher. And I fail to see how that would not be preemptive, at the very least it wouldn't be expected. Think of the guy throwing the punch. Odds are, unless he knows I am a black belt he will probably assume that his hook will connect. So when it doesn't and he gets an injured throat out of it, there will be some surprise.

And, if we are picking out singular statements, you said, "anything based on pain (like eye gouging).... becomes very, very unreliable." And then you later say, "Damage... never stops working." Yet what is an eye gouge? If I forcefully insert my finger(s) into your eye(s), would it not cause certain and possibly irreversible damage, at least for a short time?

 

[Cyriacus]

I am well aware the effects of a throat strike, but my art does not rely on that being the fight finisher.

Your original statement was,
"(though a C-hand strike to the throat would stop even Mike Tyson if properly executed)."

Im afraid that just isnt reliable.

And I fail to see how that would not be preemptive, at the very least it wouldn't be expected. Think of the guy throwing the punch. Odds are, unless he knows I am a black belt he will probably assume that his hook will connect. So when it doesn't and he gets an injured throat out of it, there will be some surprise.

Firstly, pre-emptive refers to hitting him before any form of fight. One might also call it a sucker punch or cheap shot.
Secondly, if hes full of adrenalin youll be lucky if he even feels it, let alone gets surprised. Since this is in the context of a head to head fight wherein he throws the first hook, were speaking in the context of an ego driven brawl. Also meaning hes had plenty of time to work himself up.

And, if we are picking out singular statements, you said, "anything based on pain (like eye gouging).... becomes very, very unreliable." And then you later say, "Damage... never stops working." Yet what is an eye gouge? If I forcefully insert my finger(s) into your eye(s), would it not cause certain and possibly irreversible damage, at least for a short time?

No, actually. An eye gouge is an attempt to remove the eye from the head or to force your fingers into the eye to disrupt vision. For damage to occur youd need several seconds of sustained and considerable pressure during which the other person would suddenly have every reason to wreck your day because you just tried to blind him. This is all assuming you beat his blink reflex, and even if you do, he still might not care since his intent is built on offense and not defense. Theres a whole thread explaining how unreliable eye gouging is on here if you want me to dig it up.

 

[StormShadow]

Sorry to gravedig, but before I went to the class I Googled it and this thread came up. I went to the free demo thing tonight, and I hate to say it, but that bad review is quite accurate, even 5 years after this thread. Granted, several thing were different, but in all my experience with the demo was quite similar to that guy's.

The Sifu still uses the Mike Tyson analogy. He uses it to demonstrate how to stop a hook, and any other way to do it he claimed as wrong. He was extremely arrogant about his art. He also asked how I would block in my art (Kung Fu San Soo) and I did a left up-windmill block and strike to the throat. He proceeded to tell me that I was wrong and that I would get hit (though a C-hand strike to the throat would stop even Mike Tyson if properly executed).

Then he showed his way of doing it (after being fully prepared and expecting a hook.) Pretty much the rest of it mirror's the other guy's experience. He bashed on my art while saying his is flawless (I do like it, just not the instructor).

I did, however, try the rest of the class and enjoyed it, even if I sucked terribly (so different from San Soo). Everyone else was very nice and willing to work with me.

Overall, I will be hesitant to practice there, though I do like Wing Chun a lot, just not the instructor.

who was the instructor?