new technique

[satans.barber]

Evening,

As part of the 3rd Dan syllabus in Kenpo Ryu, students have to come up with 5 or 6 'new' techniques in order to grade, of at least some significant difference to existing ones.

One of the guys from the south coast has come up with the following, which is quite nice:

Attack: right swinging puch (5 swords attack)

Defense:

i) begin with a traditional 5 swords three-point defense (rear handsword to the forearm (minor muscle group), lead hammerfist to the bicep (major muscle group) and a knee-to-knee check)

ii) from the block, quickly drop the lead hand down in an outwards handsword to the soft area between the hip joint and the lowest ribs, causing the opponent to crumple over somewhat to one side. Simultaneously grabbing their outstretched wrist with the rear hand. As you grab and they crumple, hopefully the arm becomes bent, facing upwards, rather than locked. If not you can manipulate it into position with your grab.

iii) from this position (this is the tricky bit), bring (or rather bounce) the lead hand up behind their arm and then grab their wrist at it's underside, so that your palm is against the underside of their wrist.

iv) from this position you have three choices:

a) continue the motion quickly downwards towards the floor, destroying their shoulder (i.e. the nasty option)

b) use your lead leg to sweep them and manipulate them down to the floor

c) push their face away from you with your rear hand (so they can't spit at you), and using any amount of pressure needed on the lock walk the person wherever you wish (control and restraint option).

Since the person in the lock is is having to conciously lend their weight to not falling over backwards, it's difficult for them to strike you in any manner.

The technique is edsigned to be done very fast initially, but once the lock is on there really isn't anything that the person can do.

I hope that's clear, kenpo is hard to type

If not, I can try and be more verbose.

Have fun with it if you want to try it out.

Ian.

 

[Goldendragon7]

And.........

 

[Rich Parsons]

Please excuse my ignorance, I do not train in
Kenpo.

The creation of 5 or 6 new techniques:
Is this done the have the student to always be
aware of new stuff? or is it to just to make
the imagination work?

Just curious?

You also mentioned significant differences
from existing one: Does this mean a new place
to apply a technique? after you have made a
different opening.

Remember I have no Kenpo experience, so please
bare with me.

Thank you all in advance

Rich
:asian:

 

[satans.barber]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

And.........

And what??

There's no hidden meaning, just play with it if you want!

Ian.

 

[satans.barber]

Originally posted by Rich Parsons


The creation of 5 or 6 new techniques: Is this done the have the student to always be aware of new stuff? or is it to just to make the imagination work?

The idea is that students at that level apply all of the principles they've learnt in previous techniques to create 'new' ones, it shows understanding.

You also mentioned significant differences from existing one: Does this mean a new place to apply a technique? after you have made a different opening.

It just means that you can't blatantly use the first half of one technique and the second half of another, for example, and call it a new one. It needs to be something that people don't immediately recognise as being other techniques stuck together, or there should be something else new about it.

For example the joint lock applied in this particular one that I typed out doesn't appear in any of our other techniques (that I know of).

Ian.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Thanks for the explanation.


And also sorry for give the horrible spelling.

'Knowledge Gathering' - Ouch

Have a nice day

Rich

 

[satans.barber]

Originally posted by Rich Parsons

Thanks for the explanation.

I've thought of a better one.

Kenpo can be quite like music, at a low level, you can be taught a piece of music, and can play it, and it sounds nice, in the same way that you can be taught a kenpo technique and it looks and feels OK.

However, at this level you don't know why the music sounds nice, or why the technique works.

As you become more proficient in music, you learn about scales, modes, harmonies and so forth, and this enables you to either write your own set pieces of music, or improvise musically.

Kenpo is the same, as you understand the principles behind the techniques, it enables you to either imporise kenpo, or create your own techniques in the same way.

Without the understanding though, this is not possible.

Perhaps most critically though, once you understand music, the pieces that you simply learnt blindly before sound much better, because you know why things are the way that they are. In kenpo, once you learn the principles all of the techniques that you followed blindly at the start, they take on a new quality.

Ian.

 

[Bill Smith]

Rich,
I believe what the instuctor is trying to do is see where the student is in his/her training. At that level they should be able to graph a technique without thinking. It's much like creating a personal form. It lets them know if the student is internalizing the system. I'm sure the big dogs (Mr. C, Les, etc.) can fine tune this for you.

Yours in Kenpo,
Bill Smith

 

[Les]

Ian,

Please bear in mind that I'm only here to learn, but I wonder what our opponent is doing with his other hand?

Granted, if the outward handsword (I'd be inclined to use a Downward Outward Hammerfist on that diagonal) does it job, you will control his height zone. But suppose that shot fails.

I've read it correctly, you are commiting both of your hands to controling his right arm, while on the inside of him.

Suppose his other hand is holding a knife?
(Statistics show that in most situations the defender is already involved the physical encounter before they realise a knife is involved, and perceive the stab or slice as another punch)

I can see a Response interval, and a Dynamic, but no Check Maintainence Interval.

I'm not being picky, and Lord knows some the techniques I come up with are cr*p, so probably I'm missing something.

Les

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by Bill Smith

Rich,
I believe what the instructor is trying to do is see where the student is in his/her training. At that level they should be able to graph a technique without thinking. It's much like creating a personal form. It lets them know if the student is internalizing the system. I'm sure the big dogs (Mr. C, Les, etc.) can fine tune this for you.

Yours in Kenpo,
Bill Smith

First Thanks to Ian for the Music explanation.

Bill, Thanks for the insight in different words
it also helped.

In Modern Arnis, I have seen similar things and
ideas, like creating your on form, and expecting
persons of certain rank to have a certain insight
to techniques and be able to 'Go with the Flow'.

Yet, my understanding from my point of view of
Modern Arnis, does not mean it is the same from
Kenpo. So, I asked the question to learn and
improve my understanding and comprehension.

Thanks for being patient

Rich

 

[satans.barber]

Originally posted by Les

Ian,

Please bear in mind that I'm only here to learn, but I wonder what our opponent is doing with his other hand?

Granted, if the outward handsword (I'd be inclined to use a Downward Outward Hammerfist on that diagonal) does it job, you will control his height zone. But suppose that shot fails.

I've read it correctly, you are commiting both of your hands to controling his right arm, while on the inside of him.

<snip>

I'm not being picky, and Lord knows some the techniques I come up with are cr*p, so probably I'm missing something.

Good points, but you can do this with most techniques....

I think, in all honesty, it's relying on speed. Once that lock is on the other hand is useless (try it), but until then it is a danger yes.

Maybe if I'd have come up with it, I'd have done it differently, I don't know.

Ian.

 

[Les]

Originally posted by Bill Smith

Rich,
I'm sure the big dogs (Mr. C, Les, etc.) can fine tune this for you.

Yours in Kenpo,
Bill Smith

Hey Bill,

I'm not one of the "big dogs", I just can't keep my mouth shut, and hope I'll appear to know what I'm talking about.

When I post, it is in the hope that some of the replies will show me if I'm on the right track or not.

Les

 

[Goldendragon7]

:asian: