Nazis Around The Corner

[Bob Hubbard]

First Amendment

I don't see them as harmless.

 

[arnisador]

Certainly if they were 40% of the population I'd be much more worried. There's always a need and moral obligation to condemn such repellent views, but showing up at the rally isn't clearly the best way to do so. When things like this have been in the news near us I have unfailingly pointed out to my children what I hoped and believed they already knew: These scumsucking bottomfeeders are either stupid, violent, or looking for attention--I allow the possibility of "all of the above"--and would be unlikely to be happy in a world in which their offensive views were to come to reality. (How well did it work out last time?) Condemnation and mockery is appropriate. Going somewhere where trouble is apt to break out, and helping give these imbeciles the attention they crave, isn't such a good idea, as a rule. (Though I do kind of like elder999 the Younger's solution. ) If it hits 50% of the population...well, in theory the courts protect minority rights. In practice I'd be mighty conceerned and would be keeping my passport valid just-in-case.

Are they harmless? No. They're poison.

 

[elder999]

Not endorsing violent opposition to the rally, just wondering if those who support the Klan's right to march are doing it from a principled First Amendment stance or because they see them as mostly harmless.

I support their right to march from a principled First Amendment stance. One need only take a peek at some of the filfth being promulgated over on the Stormfront to see the insidious nature of the First Amendment rights of people like that in action.

The First Amendment itself is not "harmless." It was radical and subversive in 1791, and it's still radical and subversive-even more so.
"Freedom of Religion," "Freedom of the Press," "Freedom of Speech," "Freedom of Assembly," and "Freedom to Petition" : all these things were exceptions in most countries then, and still are-these things do not exist in a great many countries today, and we take them for granted at their-and our peril.

The fact that they assemble and speak to deny people like myself those rights, well, just goes to show that they're *******s that will never quite get it......

 

[CoryKS]

I support their right to march from a principled First Amendment stance. One need only take a peek at some of the filfth being promulgated over on the Stormfront to see the insidious nature of the First Amendment rights of people like that in action.

The First Amendment itself is not "harmless." It was radical and subversive in 1791, and it's still radical and subversive-even more so.
"Freedom of Religion," "Freedom of the Press," "Freedom of Speech," "Freedom of Assembly," and "Freedom to Petition" : all these things were exceptions in most countries then, and still are-these things do not exist in a great many countries today, and we take them for granted at their-and our peril.

The fact that they assemble and speak to deny people like myself those rights, well, just goes to show that they're *******s that will never quite get it......

I agree. But maybe my support of the First Amendment isn't as strong as some of our other posters because, although I support their right to assemble NOW, when they're just a small group of loudmouthed weasels, I don't know that I would be as tolerant of them if they started gaining numbers. In our country numbers = votes and if by some chance they managed to convince enough people that they are right, then they can do a lot more than speak to deny people like you - and my wife and son - those rights. I don't think I would be able to watch that and say, "Well, by golly, they played by the rules so good on 'em."

On the other hand that scenario is probably unlikely to the point of ridiculousness, so you never know.

 

[Gordon Nore]

I support their right to march from a principled First Amendment stance. One need only take a peek at some of the filfth being promulgated over on the Stormfront to see the insidious nature of the First Amendment rights of people like that in action.

I differ only slightly although I live under similar freedoms with regards to speech. I don't necessarily support the right of Nazis, Klansmen, and Skinheads to speak their mind, but I accept it. I acknowledge it because people inclined towards those beliefs ultimately don't want a society in which all are free to voice their ideas. They never argue for anyone else's right to speak.

They have their right. I would prefer they not exist, but I would never want my government or policing institutions to interefere with that.

 

[searcher]

Tell your friends to stay home and not give them an audience. That is the best thing you could do. I saw the Anti-Nazis on tv the other day. The New Black Panther Party was out telling all of the people to rally together and kill all of the whites, asians, and anybody else that did not look like themselves. They want to do the same thing as the Nazis, kill everyone of any different race then their own and build a new nation out of the ashes.

No matter how you want to look at it, we are going to have a coonfrontation between groups like this and it will be a mess. We, as a nation, need to get ourslevs together and go back to the ptinciples that made this country great.

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

Hey to each their own, I still find find the extreme sides of humanity facing off as too interesting to pass up watching. REgardless of the danger. I am no idiot, I do not bring anyone with me, I don't park my car anywhere nearby. Common Sense goes a long way.

I think most people agree that Racism is rooted in ignorance more then anything else, and ignorance can be resolved for the most part.
The thing that seems more dangerous to me is Religious extremism, Thats based on Faith for the most part not ignorance, and unlike ignorance faith is alot harder to remove from a person.

 

[Touch Of Death]

There will be a Nazi rally under the Gateway Arch in St. Louis on April 18, 2009.

I've been seeing fliers that speak out against their rally, and plans for counter-rallies.

I think both should be able to occur, regardless of my distaste for Nazi beliefs, and what that group represents.

However, a lot of my acquaintances are talking about "beating them up" and "teaching them a lesson."

How are you to get your ideological point across the hate line while you're attacking someone for having strong beliefs?

I say just let them talk their talk, and leave the city. No counter rally. No press. Nothing. If Nazi belief is so detested in the US, then I say ignore it.

Once a single member of a Neo-Nazi group commits a crime. The leader goes to jail. I say let them congrgate.
Sean

 

[Thems Fighting Words]

I also consider why they are there. They are there hoping - praying - that people will show up to protest them. Do they really think, in a million years, that people will come to their rallies and convert to their way of thinking? No, they don't think that - they're not that stupid.

But when the 'opposition' shows up, they get news coverage. The Nazis marched in Skokie, film at eleven. If there is a riot, so much the better.

So why give them what they want?

They actually managed it a few years back, in Beloit, Wisconsin.

When the Klan held a rally there, the city responded with a counter-demonstration on the other side of town. Free entry, they had a mini-circus, rides for the kids, local performers, demonstrations from various ethnic coalitions for peace, free hot dogs and balloons and face-painting, and they publicized it like crazy for weeks beforehand. Really did it up right. The day came, the Klan stood on the courthouse steps with their bullhorns and a couple dozen protesters. They yelled and sang for an hour and then packed up and left town. Even the news crews weren't covering them. Everybody was having fun on the other side of town, busy NOT hating each other. Imagine that.

That is a brilliant way to handle it. Marginalizes the idiots instead of drawing more attention to them.

 

[AoCAdam]

There will be a Nazi rally under the Gateway Arch in St. Louis on April 18, 2009.

I've been seeing fliers that speak out against their rally, and plans for counter-rallies.

I think both should be able to occur, regardless of my distaste for Nazi beliefs, and what that group represents.

However, a lot of my acquaintances are talking about "beating them up" and "teaching them a lesson."

How are you to get your ideological point across the hate line while you're attacking someone for having strong beliefs?

I say just let them talk their talk, and leave the city. No counter rally. No press. Nothing. If Nazi belief is so detested in the US, then I say ignore it.

I absolutely agree with you on this. I feel the best way is to not give them any media coverage at all. Like you stated just ignore the fact and they are protesting and they will gain nothing from it. "Teaching them a lesson" will only show them that people think they are a threat and would more likely strengthen their resolve.

 

[Gordon Nore]

Everybody was having fun on the other side of town, busy NOT hating each other. Imagine that.

Splendid post, Bill. I think this is right on the money. No, I'm not going to weep if some oxygen thief Nazi gets his chops busted at a protest, but that's precisely what he wanted in the first place, so nothing's really been gained from sinking to his level. But this, this is how people of good conscience should handle these depraved individuals.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Gordon Nore]

....who took my slingshot, smiled and said, You better go home, now,
and so I did. :lol:

Naturally, I'd neither recommend or condone such foolish action today, but now, nearly 40 years later, I can still savor the satisfaction, and can understand the impulse.....

Shame on you, Aaron. I would have expected a man of your intelligence and character...






...to bring more ball bearings.

:lfao:

 

[grydth]

I fully agree that public confrontations with these skunks at their demonstrations only help them. Nobody showing up, by contrast, illustrates how pathetic they are.

But ignore them? No.

The Holocaust did happen, and it was far worse than most imagine. Those survivors are dying off quickly, and that memory needs to be kept alive. The Nazis were a laughed at fringe group in the early 1920's.... what a terrible difference a decade, and then another, made.

So teach your children about them.... the lies, the murders, the seductive way they play upon resentments and divisions.....and write a letter to public forums, talk with your associates.

They thrive in difficult economic times, in times of division and distrust... kind of like roaches.

Never forget, and never again.

 

[Gordon Nore]

I fully agree that public confrontations with these skunks at their demonstrations only help them. Nobody showing up, by contrast, illustrates how pathetic they are.

But ignore them? No.

Certainly not. They're inside my computer. One of the more invidious examples of their stealth is this little gem -- www.martinlutherking.org -- at face value a site about Dr King. It's actually a front for hate speech. And it leads to this charming little forum: http://www.stormfront.org/forum/

These little square pegs are all over the place. Looking at some of the posts in the link above, I was astonished to see that these guys have brushed up on their grammar, kinda' like when David Dukes cleaned up for his gubernatorial run. There don't have to be millions of them to create problems. I would not be the least bit surprised that they haven't planted members in government agencies, universities, etc. I fear we'll be hearing from more of them during the Obama years. The times are ripe for them. Economic upheaval. Tremendous distrust of institutions. People disenfranchised.

 

[Carol]

I would not be the least bit surprised that they haven't planted members in government agencies, universities, etc.

Eh? Stormfront is a message board full of miserable people blaming everyone but themselves for their problems. How do you make that "they" are so powerful that they are planting people here and there?

 

[Gordon Nore]

Eh? Stormfront is a message board full of miserable people blaming everyone but themselves for their problems. How do you make that "they" are so powerful that they are planting people here and there?

I was merely mentioning Stormfront as an example of hatemongers in the web world. Did you see the size of that forum? Perhaps I was a bit over the top, but I would not be surprised if the movement hasn't got its plants here or there.

 

[Carol]

I was merely mentioning Stormfront as an example of hatemongers in the web world. Did you see the size of that forum? Perhaps I was a bit over the top, but I would not be surprised if the movement hasn't got its plants here or there.

.

I just don't see the movement as being so powerful that they have a good bit of truck with the government, or the university system, etc. I don't doubt that it is possible for activists/sympathizers to be here or there but overall I don't see any real organization. The movement (at least to me) just doesn't seem that organized. If anything, these organizations seem to be doing a remarkable (and beautifully ironic) job of uniting a community against them.

There was a great story here a couple years ago. Some hate group out of northern New England came to Boston to protest...something. When they got off the train, they were approached by a few of Boston's Finest who asked them if they wanted a lift downtown. They greatfully accepted.

The Boston Police dropped them off on the other side of the city, leaving them a long train ride away from their intended destination, and making them well over an hour late for their gathering. :lfao: :lfao:

 

[Flea]

I really shouldn't have looked. I know this. But I did it anyway.

The Stormfront forum was pretty predictable ... but I almost blew snot when I noticed that their filter blocks the N-word! On a white power forum of all things ... can't they program around that? You'd think it would be on their top 10 list.

:BSmeter:

 

[CanuckMA]

The Holocaust did happen, and it was far worse than most imagine. Those survivors are dying off quickly, and that memory needs to be kept alive. The Nazis were a laughed at fringe group in the early 1920's.... what a terrible difference a decade, and then another, made.

Never forget, and never again.

That memory is being kept alive. When my and my wife's entire family sat down for our Passover Seders , all 12 of us, you can be assured that my children were accutely aware why we are so small.


Those nut-bars should not be given the time of day. But they should not be ignored.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Ya know what gets me about StormFront?
They have over 150,000 members and charge $50 for a paid membership.
What's wrong with that picture?
Sheesh.