My new toy . . .

[BLACK LION]

okay glock lovers, someone asked for an opinion on the XD....
I own 2 of them....both I have had since they came out in 2006 and neither of them have ever "failed" me ...even if I did have a discrepancy with that particular sidearm it would not negate the positive things about the line of pistols entirely.... those that own them know they dont suck and are more than willing to deal with whatever problems arise(mags, springs, guide rod)
I am sure there are plenty accounts of glock "failures"... and even still, I went down to the gun store today to take a peak at some glocks, sigs and hks.... i picked up a g20 AGAIN because i want a 10mm and it felt cheap ....it rattled when you shake it .... the grip and sight picture are not natural or comfortable to me.... there is only a trigger safety... one mag release for the thumb of the right hand...no chamber loaded indicator and no striker status indicator....it was 200.00 more than my xd... I want to like glocks and I have given them thier fair share of stage time but I just dont see them in that way.... thier safety and ergonomics are behind ....so what if it shoots underwater

 

[BLACK LION]

i can see why there would be failures in a shooting class because they are learning to shoot.... i had failures when i was learning to shoot mine too... until i figured out it was operator error and not the pistol

 

[KenpoTex]

okay glock lovers, someone asked for an opinion on the XD....

And he received the opinions of those who believe that they are not all they're cracked up to be and that there are better options for a fighting handgun (since, IMO, reliability should trump all other considerations when choosing a tool on which to stake your life).

I own 2 of them....both I have had since they came out in 2006 and neither of them have ever "failed" me ...even if I did have a discrepancy with that particular sidearm it would not negate the positive things about the line of pistols entirely.... those that own them know they dont suck and are more than willing to deal with whatever problems arise(mags, springs, guide rod)

I am sure there are plenty accounts of glock "failures"...

Do Glocks occasionally fail? sure...but so does anything made by man. The point a couple of us tried to make, is that collectively, the Glocks are more reliable than the XDs.

I went down to the gun store today to take a peak at some glocks, sigs and hks.... i picked up a g20 AGAIN because i want a 10mm and it felt cheap ....it rattled when you shake it .... the grip and sight picture are not natural or comfortable to me.... there is only a trigger safety... one mag release for the thumb of the right hand...no chamber loaded indicator and no striker status indicator....it was 200.00 more than my xd... I want to like glocks and I have given them thier fair share of stage time but I just dont see them in that way.... thier safety and ergonomics are behind ....so what if it shoots underwater

• There is a loaded chamber indicator, it's on the extractor.
• There may not be a striker-status indicator, but if racking the slide isn't enough for you, you can always do a press-check.
• It rattled when you shook it? It should, that's the striker moving inside the channel.
• $200 more than an XD...there are places to buy them where they're more competitively priced (online vendors etc.)
• The Glocks are as safe as anything else out there...they have several internal safety mechanisms. Just because they only have one external safety device does not make them less safe than other weapons. Of course, the primary safety is proper trigger-finger discipline...without that, none of the levers and widgets are worth anything and no gun is any safer than another.
• Ergonomics are purely a personal thing...not something that can be used to objectively judge an entire line of pistols (where have I heard that statement?)

i can see why there would be failures in a shooting class because they are learning to shoot.... i had failures when i was learning to shoot mine too... until i figured out it was operator error and not the pistol

Operator error incidents are not included in the examples I mentioned.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Clearly some people here have never heard of the Glock .vs. 1911 matches. They had them several times in McKinny Texas and at the SDSI range near Dallas.

Match went like this. You bring 1000 rounds. IPSC style match. Lots of runnin and gunning. The match will expend all 1000 rounds in one day.

Any production 1911 or Glock pistol can be used. In fact about any service pistol can be used!

NO CLEANING ALLOWED.

Your gun will be set on a table at lunch time, photographed with the others, and left there while you had lunch.

If during the match the gun malfunctions for any reason, you are to stop (and not clear the jam), let the SOs examine the manfunction and record it, and then clear and resume the match.

Virtually always the Glock 17s and 19s go the whole 1000 rounds. The .45 Glocks sometimes jam once are twice. The 1911s have had a few make it (a 9mm Springfield Armory and a STI .45 did that I remember.)

Don't know if XDs have ever survived the match with out a malfunction but I've never heard of one.

Deaf

 

[Skpotamus]

My wife carries a Kahr PM9 and loves it. I've been pretty impressed with it, we ran the gun dirty to see how long it could go between cleanings without jamming. It started having some issues feeding hollowpoints right around 500 rounds. FMJ's were still fine though.

I was working in gun shops when the XD ORIGINALLY came out, it was called the HS 2000 made in Croatia, cost $300 and was generally considered to be a handgun on the quality level of a good plinker or range pistol (along the lines of the S&W Sigma series). Not something you would want to carry or trust your life to.

Springfield Armory bought the croation company, stamped their name on the side of the gun, raised the price $150 and suddenly it's the second coming of sliced bread.

I've shot them, and didn't like the high bore axis, the poor finish (regular bluing vs at least a parkerized finish, or the glock tennifer finish). It wasn't until the 45 came out that the XD started to get a melonite finish, which is close in strength to a glock's tennifer, but not quite. Don't believe me? Take a crass key and scratch a glock's slide, then do the same to an XD. The XD is permanently marred while the glock's mark will simply wipe off.

The big thing I don't like is the safety system they use is less "safe" than the glock, but gets a better rep than the glock. The glock is a DAO (Double action only), your trigger pull cocks the firing pin, without the trigger being pulled, the gun cannot fire since there is no stored energy to make the firing pin move forward. It also has a firing pin block. An XD/HS2000 is a single action gun, the firing pin stays cocked the entire time the gun is "safe". If you hold the gun in your hand, you're removing the firing pin channel block, meaning that the sear is holding the gun from firing. A hard impact to the gun could make the sear jump it's catch point and fire without the trigger being pulled.

An XD is still a good gun, but it's just not in the same league as a Glock or Sig Sauer as far as reliability. (it's about on par with an H&K, which is just a step down in reliability from a glock or sig).

For comparison, people say their XD only jammed once or twice every few hundred rounds. I know the local sherrif's dept trainer who's shot over 150K rounds through his glock 22 without a single problem.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

It all comes down to reliability and when you want that then a Glock is an obvious choice.

Though to be fair there are other firearms that I enjoy as well. However, when I am out and about then a Glock
is what I take with me.

 

[KenpoTex]

It all comes down to reliability and when you want that then a Glock is an obvious choice.

Though to be fair there are other firearms that I enjoy as well. However, when I am out and about then a Glock
is what I take with me.

exactly. I said almost the exact same thing in a conversation with another member here recently.

There is nothing wrong with owning a variety of guns for recreational shooting, competition, hunting, or just because you want one. For the aforementioned purposes, it doesn't really matter what you choose.
However, when we are talking about choosing a gun that is going to be used for concealed-carry or home defense...something upon which you are staking your life and that of your loved ones, there are good and bad choices.

 

[thardey]

Gentlemen . . .

Obviously the type of gun we carry is an intensely personal choice. It's part of who we are, and how we think. After all, you have to be honest with yourself if you're facing life-and-death decisions.

But there comes a point where it becomes a chevy-vs.-fords argument. There's been a lot of good information posted, and it's very informative, but let's see if we can keep it from being personal.

FTR, this was supposed to be a thread about KAHR's, not XD's, but as long as it stays healthy, I don't care.

Me, I'm lucky - the Glock .45 fits my hands, and is fun for me to shoot. That means I don't have to choose between ergonomics and reliability. Others aren't so lucky.

The XD doesn't fit my hands -- it feels like I'm going to drop it. Same with the 1911's. Which is odd, because the Kahr does fit, even though it's like 1/2 the size.

But for some people, the Glock just is a pain to shoot. They have to choose between having fun shooting it (which translates into lots of practice), or having the little extra reliability. If you want to argue the most reliable, safe pistols, let's just go with a Double-action revolver and be done with it! But, we're willing to trade a little for the ability to carry more ammo, and a lighter gun.

But it is good to know that there is a trade-off for the XD - that it still doesn't measure up to the Glock like the marketing says it does.

Skpotamaus, that's interesting about the "DAO" for the XD, which really isn't. In looking at my sister's XD, it appeared that it had a similar mechanism as the Glock, I'll have to warn her about that. In my opinion, the DAO function is the safest protection in any gun - much better than any of the others. Even if it's a half-DAO, like the Kahr.

For you Glock boys, I'm still with you! In situations with heavier clothing, I carry the Glock IWB on my hip. In "deeper cover" (My job is such that some people would be highly offended if they knew that I carried - it would make my job much more difficult) I carry the Kahr in my front pocket.

 

[BLACK LION]

A wannabe Glock."

by Chaim Stein

That was my first thought after laying eyes on Springfield Armory's XD9 pistol. Closer inspection of the slide revealed the words "Made in Croatia." Those are words that, when stamped on the slide of a handgun, aren't known to inspire the consumer's confidence.
I did not want to like this gun. I've always been a strong Glock fan, and it annoyed me that yet another company wanted to jump on the polymer bandwagon with a rehash of old concepts and designs. Despite that, one has to take notice when that company is Springfield Armory. Known for quality products, lifetime guarantees and fine customer service, Springfield Armory's name stamped on the other side of the slide does inspire confidence.
The more I looked at this gun, the more I found myself comparing it to a Glock. The trigger safeties are very similar, but the XD's trigger is made of metal. Its sights are metal, too. The XD also has a superior trigger pull. The grip angle is improved, which enables more intuitive target acquisition for most shooters.

Full story located here: http://springfield-armory.primediaou.../SPstory11.php

 

[teekin]

exactly. I said almost the exact same thing in a conversation with another member here recently.

There is nothing wrong with owning a variety of guns for recreational shooting, competition, hunting, or just because you want one. For the aforementioned purposes, it doesn't really matter what you choose.
However, when we are talking about choosing a gun that is going to be used for concealed-carry or home defense...something upon which you are staking your life and that of your loved ones, there are good and bad choices.

Don't drag me into this mess Kenpotex. I did say that I would take that god awful 9mm Glock with me into the Jungle if I could only take 1 pistol. I also said I'd whine about it till cause I have no feel or confidence with that gun, other than it'll keep firing round after round. ( If I have any choice I'd take the F.N. and leave he bleeding Glock at home):biggun:
Lori M

 

[KenpoTex]

Don't drag me into this mess Kenpotex. I did say that I would take that god awful 9mm Glock with me into the Jungle if I could only take 1 pistol. I also said I'd whine about it till cause I have no feel or confidence with that gun, other than it'll keep firing round after round. ( If I have any choice I'd take the F.N. and leave he bleeding Glock at home):biggun:
Lori M

I didn't drag you into it, you jumped into it on your own

 

[arnisandyz]

Also take a look at the M&P. I've owned a G17, and an XD, both good guns but never really fit me well, but I really like the M&P. Trigger out of the box is so-so but it really responds well and you can get a great trigger with a little work.

My first one has been serving double duty as an IDPA and USPSA Production gun shooting around 4 matches a month for over 2 years strait (probably over 1000 rounds a month including matches and practice) with zero problems. The slide is worn from all the draws and the magwell area is chewed up from all the reload practice...its beat to hell but still keeps going. I also have one that I daily carry. I have since picked up a 5" M&P9L model and a 5" M&P Pro Series for the upcoming season(s).

 

[Deaf Smith]

Well if you guys are wondering, if I only had one handgun to take into a jungle, yea it would be a Glock. A Glock 17. Of all the glocks, it's the only one to virtualy always go 1000 rounds without cleaning.

Chuck Taylor got one, put over 100,000 rounds through it, then sank it in the San Fran bay for 6 months, fished it out, only rust was on the stainless extractor plunger. Went ahead and put another 70,000 rounds through it. In fact he still uses it as a loaner for students (and that's how it go so many rounds through it.)

Yes a plain old stinky Glock 17 hands down is what I'd pick. While I own a whole bunch of guns from Sigs to Colts to Springfields to Kimbers to Smiths to..., and my carry Glock is the 27, I still keep one Glock 17.

Deaf

 

[Andy Moynihan]

1911 man myself. Once you're used to that grip and trigger, nothing else really feels the same.

My issue with the 1911 is I think it is a great gun, but I do NOT think it is a great "first" gun. Until you are used to the SAO trigger and the ins and outs of all mechanisms involved in safe "cocked and locked" carry, I too would steer a newb to a Glock.

Once you understand the ins and outs of the 1911 mechanism---and are prepared to commit to its cleanliness and upkeep---you could pick a hell of a lot worse choices IMO.

 

[atinsley]

I know I am a little late on this thread, but figured I'd jump on in .

The choice of firearms, just like the various Martial Arts that we all train in, is a matter of personal choice.

I can't tell you what the best handgun for you is, just like I can't tell you what art is best for you. I can only give my thoughts and opinions, based on my personal preferences and experiences.

What you carry is a choice that needs to be made by you based off of what you want to do with the handgun, your shooting style and experience, your budget and whether or not you can shoot/handle the weapon of choice.

A friend of mine purchased an XD45 service for his wife; when they went to the range, she was unable to manipulate the slide and the gun did not fit right in her hands. I now own that gun and it was one of the best purchases I have made in awhile. The gun feels good in my hands and I found it to be very reliable. In fact, I liked the performance of the weapon so much, I went out and purchased an xd40sc, which is now my current ccw.

Side note: xd40sc kicks like a mule, much worse then either of the .45's that I have. Probably something to do with the 3" barrel, huh?

Personally, I don't care for Glocks. Not because it isn't a good weapon, there's no question that it is, it's because it doesn't fit me. It just doesn't feel right when I shoot one. And because of that, I cannot place trust in something that I cannot comfortably use.

I have another friend who swears by Glock's. If I were to give him my XD, he wouldn't take it, because he doesn't like the way it feels in his hands and he can't shoot it reliably.

So, in short, buy and use whatever you feel is a good fit for you and be happy with it; because after all, it is you who will be using that gun when the times comes, not us.

 

[sgtmac_46]

1911 man myself. Once you're used to that grip and trigger, nothing else really feels the same.

My issue with the 1911 is I think it is a great gun, but I do NOT think it is a great "first" gun. Until you are used to the SAO trigger and the ins and outs of all mechanisms involved in safe "cocked and locked" carry, I too would steer a newb to a Glock.

Once you understand the ins and outs of the 1911 mechanism---and are prepared to commit to its cleanliness and upkeep---you could pick a hell of a lot worse choices IMO.

The 1911 is definitely not a gun for novice shooters. It's a professional shooters gun with all that entails.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Well if you guys are wondering, if I only had one handgun to take into a jungle, yea it would be a Glock. A Glock 17. Of all the glocks, it's the only one to virtualy always go 1000 rounds without cleaning.

Chuck Taylor got one, put over 100,000 rounds through it, then sank it in the San Fran bay for 6 months, fished it out, only rust was on the stainless extractor plunger. Went ahead and put another 70,000 rounds through it. In fact he still uses it as a loaner for students (and that's how it go so many rounds through it.)

Yes a plain old stinky Glock 17 hands down is what I'd pick. While I own a whole bunch of guns from Sigs to Colts to Springfields to Kimbers to Smiths to..., and my carry Glock is the 27, I still keep one Glock 17.

Deaf

A Glock is a gun you get when you have to have a gun that will fire no matter how you abuse it. Many pro's pick it, but it's number1 as a grunts gun. Treat it like crap and it will still save your life.