Music Download bootlegs on ABC

Chuck D predicted all this on Fear of a Black Planet, back in the early 80s. they didn't anticiapte the internet/P2P exactly, but the total breakdown of distribution control...David Bowie is still a visionary. This is what he realized many years ago - Why buy a CD when you can download all the songs for free? Because of all the extras - interesting packaging, lyric sheets, photos etc.

Do any of us really care if some millinaire pop start or millionaire record exec gets more money?

Last but not least - if the record industry produced better product they wouldn't be in such a jam. Sales are off because nobody wants your product.
 
flatlander said:
Second, Chumbawaumba sucked, Technopunk. Even the single. All of it. Sick, sick trash..
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Hey man... I was just correcting Animedge who said their name was "Chubthumpa"
 
Technopunk said:
Hey man... I was just correcting Animedge who said their name was "Chubthumpa"
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I am sure you were, but I never pass up an opportunity to bash Chumbawumba who, in my expert opinion, suck eggs.
 
Kaith Rustaz said:
Some stuff I wrote 10 years or so ago on Software Piracy.
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I think I disagree.

:idunno:

You cannot "Steal" somthing that does not exist.

Lets change the example... Suppose you, Kaith Rustaz baked a loaf of bread.

I take your bread. Ive stolen your bread.

But... lets say I scan your loaf of bread, and using "replicator" technology stolen from the Starship Interprize, I duplicate your bread and eat it. Did I steal your bread?

No clearly not.

Now, I understand the argument that "The Artist/coder/actors/ blahablah" have to get paid, or they wont do the work... but somewhere the logic fails...

If the law says i can legaly tape a movie off of "Pay Per View" then I'll be damned if I would condiser making the same copy off of a DVD I rented from Blockbuster "Theft"... The "artist" got the same money either way... From the PPV company who paid for the rights to show the movie... or the Disk that was Sold to Blockbuster.

The same applies to Music.

Software? Well... again, the artists get paid by the retail stores who purchase the copies for sale...

As long as no one is stealing the "PHYSICAL COPY" of the product they paid to make, the only loss might be if they overproduce those physical copies. There are plenty of people who want the extras... Maps, Liner notes, etc... that come with the actuall product that they can still profit by selling the physical pressings... and as inexpensive as those extras are they can make it worthwhile to actually PURCHASE the copies...

Case in point: "Star Wars Battelfront" was giving away a Promotional Star Wars action Figure... made it worthwhile for me to purchase the game. Same with the new DOA game for Xbox... Promo figure.
 
it's not stealiong as much as it is an infringement of intelectual property rights... so the bread analogy is not appropriate.

this might be a better one:
What if you drew a picture, then I copied it, and I sold a million copies and got rich, and you were starving to death. You still have your picture, did I "steal" it? No, but I certaily did some kind of injustice to you...

not that Metallica is in danger of going broke...

but I am arguing against my own point :(
 
My basic arguement is that if you don't have the right to it, it's stealing. A little simplistic I know, but I'm being a bit 'generic' here.

The argument P2P = Theft is false as many artists use those networks to become known. A great deal of information is legally exchanged that way as well.

And, bootlegs are also. I've downloaded everything. In most cases, I've checked it out and promptly deleted it. It didn't fit my needs, sucked, whatever.
Some stuff I kept, evaluated it longer then either registered/purchased or removed.

There is "Fair Use", and there is theft. I can tape the PPV. I can't sell or otherwise distribute it however. You can tape the SUperBowl, but you can't sell the tape legally.

What pisses me off is when the RIAA lies, says they are losing money, when in fact they are making it, that the artists are suffering, when in fact they get almost diddly anyway, that its theft that is killing sales, when it's the fact theyve put out sound-alike crap, etc.

I have a legal right to make 1 archival backup of my cd/lp/dvd/etc, but the RIAA and MPAA say that right doesn't extend to DVDs, and impliment 'protection' on the cds (making them not really cds since they no longer conform to the cd standard) that prevents me from making the backup, or playing it on my PC (which is my main sound system).

Personally, my opinion is, download it, borrow it, whatever.
But if you like it, use it, etc, buy it and support the guys who made it possible.

I'll support independents, shareware, and other forward thinking folks, but will be spending minimally on those that insist on living in the past.
 
there was just a court ruling about bootleg recordings of concert...the court struck down a ban of selling bootleg copies of concerts
 
DavidCC said:
this might be a better one:
What if you drew a picture, then I copied it, and I sold a million copies and got rich, and you were starving to death. You still have your picture, did I "steal" it? No, but I certaily did some kind of injustice to you...
:(
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What, like say the prints of any Monet painting you can buy in most malls?

If my Picture was so good that your copies sold like hotcakes, my Original should feed me for life. Goes back to my analagy of making an original more "vaulable" than a bootleg by making it worth spending the money on.

Maybe I am a bit "cyberpunk" in my way of thinking (heh, no, not me) but you cannot OWN intelectual property... you cannot OWN somthing intangible... if you wanna argue that, I'm gonna claim the AIR as mine... and everyone who uses it must pay me $100.00/day rent on the air if they choose to breathe.


:rolleyes:
 
Kaith Rustaz said:
The music and movie industry fail to mention that their profits have been going up, despite their skewed claims.
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I personally know quite a few musicians who were/are in underground and non-mainstream bands that have had their careers ruined by file sharing. Bands that managed to sell 15,000-25,000 copies per album prior to the napster/kazaa era, and now (the ones that even bother to make new albums anymore) move 800-2,000 copies. Try paying your rent off of that.
People tend to forget, not everyone who makes music their life is a mega uber rich multimillionaire. There are more artists out there who rely on those royalty checks to pay their rent, car insurance, and put food on the table than there are big time rock stars.
 
Technopunk said:
What, like say the prints of any Monet painting you can buy in most malls?

If my Picture was so good that your copies sold like hotcakes, my Original should feed me for life. Goes back to my analagy of making an original more "vaulable" than a bootleg by making it worth spending the money on.

Maybe I am a bit "cyberpunk" in my way of thinking (heh, no, not me) but you cannot OWN intelectual property... you cannot OWN somthing intangible... if you wanna argue that, I'm gonna claim the AIR as mine... and everyone who uses it must pay me $100.00/day rent on the air if they choose to breathe.


:rolleyes:
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Well, some old paintings are public domain now they are so old. So taht might explain thsoe Monets; or, the publisher of thsoe prints ahs paid a license to the owner of the painting.

Your original might feed you for life, this is where the analogy breaks down ;) But I'm sure Metallica could sell their original studio tapes for a lot more than they can sell a single CD, yet it is the same content. if you were trying to sell prints of your picture, I am taking money out of your mouth by doing so.

air is not intangible. it physically exists. I can feel it brushing agaisnt my skin even now.
 
DavidCC said:
Your original might feed you for life, this is where the analogy breaks down ;) But I'm sure Metallica could sell their original studio tapes for a lot more than they can sell a single CD, yet it is the same content. if you were trying to sell prints of your picture, I am taking money out of your mouth by doing so..
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:idunno:

I dont see it that way. If I were a band, for example... I wouldnt care if people were bootleging my music, if it sold more t-shirts at my concert by upping attendance. If your prints created more demand for my Picture, I could then make and sell a new one... you are in fact making me more popular...

But, then again thats just my take on life... I dont believe in all for me and none for you. :asian:
 
what do you feel is the difference between inventing something concrete, like the light bulb...and inventing a new way to arrange musical notes...certainly music is an esoteric idea and is subjective to whether or not it's any good...but someone created it...i'm not saying i don't download mp3's....but it's illegal and i don't see how you can say that creating a painting or music or software is not as tangible than discovering a new way to power automobiles or something....the process is the same, the medium is just different...digital doesn't mean intangible...it just means it stored in a different manner...
 
bignick said:
digital doesn't mean intangible...it just means it stored in a different manner...
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I disagree... when you make a lightbulb, for instance... you need materials. No matter what, you can only have a finite amount of lightbulbs with say 200lbs of glass...

When you dupe code, you can make infinate numbers of copies... you are not limited by how much "tangible" material components you have... 1 copy of the code on a server can provide as much of itself as needed to fulfil the requirements of the masses. Besides... I have a hard time justifying most of it as "illegal piracy"... as per my original posts...

You CANNOT convince me that if I make a DVD legaly off of pay-per-veiw the "Aritsts" dont lose money, but they do if I make a DVD illegaly off a rental from Blockbuster... Bullspit.
 
true...and i think we can all agree chumbawumba is bad...

but digital copies still take up "space"...there's only a finite space that you can fit those copies into...each copy takes up bits...and sure...we've got a lot of 'em...but there is only so much memory...
 
Sorry for the misspelling of that uh band
Its a good example of people realising there where clearly a one hit wonder and when(if) there next cd came out it bombed horrably

The whole copyright thing if you havnt noticed is generaly a grey area, technicly Micky Mouse is now Public Domain, but sence Disney is so buddy buddy with the Gov.(or whatever they did to pull it off) the stuff to make it public domain keeps getting postponed, so you can still get sued for using him without Disneys permission.

Like the saying Goes: "Without Chaos there is no Order"
and also "History repeats itself"

Everything we are saying now, doing now, has be done allready at some form inthe past

When Radio came out, Oh my god they just killed the (early)record industry and there killing the music industry with this "Free" Music, after the fought it brought it to court so on so on life went on and so did music, they then started to charge the radio compainys and so on for playing this music and then everyone was happy

Tapes or whatever the first home music recordable device was, Oh my God they just killed the radio industry and muisc, they can now listin to "Free" Music whenever how ever they want, It was shown that people perfer to buy there music manly cuz not al songs of a band was release and radio to tape audio quiality sucks, The came out with cds withb etter qualitty and so on and music lived

and now: Burnable Cds and p2p, Oh My God they just killed the cd industry and the music industry as well the sky is falling becouse now people can download "Free" Music and play it whenever they want. and it is being shown that this, just like all the times before it, just like it happened all before that it isnt effecting much of anything(im not saying its not effecting anything) and it will end the same way, currently Mp3s players are to expensive and stupied(40gig ipod for 300? psssh my *** ill spend 70 on a cd/mp3 player 10 bucks on 40gigs worth of blank cds and spend the other 220 on dollar bills to rap them up in to make them shockproof(a ref. to a Penny Arcade joke))

This has happened before and life and music will go on just like allways

Movie ind. too

and gaming
 
bignick said:
true...and i think we can all agree chumbawumba is bad...

but digital copies still take up "space"...there's only a finite space that you can fit those copies into...each copy takes up bits...and sure...we've got a lot of 'em...but there is only so much memory...
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You miss the point...

1 loaf of bread can feed x number of people...

1 Copy of "Chumbawumba" can feed the worlds population... :D
 
Technopunk said:
You miss the point...

1 loaf of bread can feed x number of people...

1 Copy of "Chumbawumba" can feed the worlds population... :D
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yeah...if you want to give them food poisoning...

the thing is...to make bread you need to have the wheat, yeast, oven all that...those are the ingredients...

to make a digital copy...you need some form of storage and the original...just because it is exceptionally easy doesn't mean it's right...

like i said...i'm not against downloading per se...i just don't understand your justification...maybe there's something i missed...you seem very set against intellectual property rights..it seems your stance is basically.."i can...so there's nothing wront with it..."

if i'm a baker and you're starving and steal my loaf of bread...i can certainly make another one...but i lost some of the profit that i needed to buy myself food...i make another loaf of bread someone else stole it...because i'm a "rich baker...i can make all the bread i want"....well eventually i'm gonna stop making money off my creation because no one's paid for it...so i either stop making it or find some way to guard it so you can't steal it...
 
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Hey Chronuss...

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