Muay Thai Rules- Kicking the front of the leg

[Damien]

Hey everyone,

A Muay Thai rules question for you. I recently started Muay Thai as a way to get back into pad work and sparring after a few years off for various reasons, given a lack of clubs nearby that offered a strong focus on Sanda/sparring with kung fu.

Obviously some of the techniques and rules are different from what I am used to, but I'd like to use some of my favourite techniques where I can. One of which is checking kicks by intercepting them right as they start with a teep to the thigh, shin or knee (once it's been lifted), rather than just lifting and turning out my leg, that's really more of a block than a check to my mind.

On browsing the internet looking at rules there seems to be a lot of disagreement over whether this is allowed or not. Some say you can kick anywhere on the leg, others say no kicks on the knee, and others no kicks at all on the front of the leg. Some of it may be down to particular rules of certain governing bodies.

Does anyone know the standard approach? What about here in Australia?

Cheers

 

[drop bear]

I think you are allowed to. Most people don't. Is this for training or a fight?

I will check though.

 

[Damien]

I think you are allowed to. Most people don't. Is this for training or a fight?

I will check though.

Cheers.

Either or really. At the moment just training, one day I'd like to chuck myself into a fight though.

I've not seen people use it as a technique in Muay Thai, just something I'm bringing over from other experience, just because I've found it so useful.

A lot of my training at the moment is trying to overcome in built tendencies to try and do things the Muay Thai way! But when I get more comfortable with it all and do some more open sparring it would be nice to sprinkle in some kung fu magic

 

[drop bear]

Cheers.

Either or really. At the moment just training, one day I'd like to chuck myself into a fight though.

I've not seen people use it as a technique in Muay Thai, just something I'm bringing over from other experience, just because I've found it so useful.

A lot of my training at the moment is trying to overcome in built tendencies to try and do things the Muay Thai way! But when I get more comfortable with it all and do some more open sparring it would be nice to sprinkle in some kung fu magic

I have seen them both used. They teep to stop kicks.

The debate is whether you can actively target the knee.

It was also mentioned that it may be considered an insult to do it. Cos the feet. Sort of is.

 

[drop bear]

This is basically what you ate suggesting?

 

[Damien]

This is basically what you ate suggesting?

Yep, that's the one. The American (?) guy says target the inner thigh, but the other one definitely kicks the front a few times.

The debate is whether you can actively target the knee.

Yeah a lot of people don't like the idea of attacking the knee. I can see why, but if there is no weight on it I don't see the problem. If you're happy to launch your knee into someone's body/face, getting a foot to the knee when your leg is already lifted and a bit bent shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Oily Dragon]

The khao kratai is one of the basic Muay Thai techniques for attacking the knee, and defending from knee strikes.

It'd b e weird if they wouldn't be allowed in competition (they are used all the time), but sparring sure. Any attacks targeting limb joints can end someone's fun, session, career...

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[drop bear]

Yep, that's the one. The American (?) guy says target the inner thigh, but the other one definitely kicks the front a few times.



Yeah a lot of people don't like the idea of attacking the knee. I can see why, but if there is no weight on it I don't see the problem. If you're happy to launch your knee into someone's body/face, getting a foot to the knee when your leg is already lifted and a bit bent shouldn't be a problem.

Yeah. I have been told that is fine. There might be an issue john Jones kicking at someone's knee in certain organisations.

 

[jayoliver00]

Hey everyone,

A Muay Thai rules question for you. I recently started Muay Thai as a way to get back into pad work and sparring after a few years off for various reasons, given a lack of clubs nearby that offered a strong focus on Sanda/sparring with kung fu.

Legal but it could be annoying if you keep doing that; just like people who teeps all day.

There are 2 painful ways to stop these 2 spamming techniques.

 

[Damien]

Legal but it could be annoying if you keep doing that; just like people who teeps all day.

There are 2 painful ways to stop these 2 spamming techniques.

True, but sometimes you want to annoy people a little bit right?

I fully intend to embrace the MT style where I'm training, empty cup and all that, but sneaking in a few of my favourite techniques from previous experience every now and then. I want to practice and improve my MT skills, and sparring isn't about winning, its about improving but we've all got to build our own styles ultimately. So a little from column A, a little from column B, practice blending it into something that works best for me.

 

[drop bear]

True, but sometimes you want to annoy people a little bit right?

I fully intend to embrace the MT style where I'm training, empty cup and all that, but sneaking in a few of my favourite techniques from previous experience every now and then. I want to practice and improve my MT skills, and sparring isn't about winning, its about improving but we've all got to build our own styles ultimately. So a little from column A, a little from column B, practice blending it into something that works best for me.

Where are you training?

 

[Damien]

Where are you training?

Training Grounds in Crow's Nest. Tried out a couple of places around where I live and seemed to be the best. Nothing but good things to say so far.

 

[jayoliver00]

True, but sometimes you want to annoy people a little bit right?

That's exactly what this one KF instructor did when he came to spar with us (light to med power). Dodging in & out, taking potshots; not committing to any exchanges, so I got annoyed, MT clinched & jacked him up. I didn't even knee him med, just light, but I jacked up his neck in the clinch; felt bad though. I'm not trying to boast, b/c I also came from TMA & was really surprised by how well the MT clinch worked against many other styles such as KF, Karate, WC, TKD, etc. who don't train it. Once you get it down, you should go jack up your KF friends with it

I fully intend to embrace the MT style where I'm training, empty cup and all that, but sneaking in a few of my favourite techniques from previous experience every now and then.

Nothing wrong with that at all. When I first started MT, I used to sidekick & spinning back kick a bunch of them at the intermediate & down, levels. It works. KO'ed a few too. But then they'd punish me with the hands, then clinch. My hands used to suck bad coming from TMA.

I want to practice and improve my MT skills, and sparring isn't about winning, its about improving but we've all got to build our own styles ultimately. So a little from column A, a little from column B, practice blending it into something that works best for me.

I teach my guys to always spar to win; but not cause serious injuries. There are ways to keep the mood friendly but there will always be sporadic little wars, here & there.

 

[Damien]

Once you get it down, you should go jack up your KF friends with it

Haha, well that's the dream!

But then they'd punish me with the hands, then clinch. My hands used to suck bad coming from TMA.

Now that's one problem I definitely don't have. Hooks have got to be my favourite technique, and definitely one that's allowed! Plus being on the shorter side means I'm quite happy with people taking it into close range. Definitely will need to practice the clinch game, as it is not something I've done a huge amount of before, but I'll be trying to (gently ) punish anyone that lingers with hooks to the body.

We'll see how it goes, only done some gentle play sparring focussed on specific techniques so far and mostly training with people relatively new to martial arts, but with more time in muay thai. Got to learn all the MT fundamentals before I moved into more advanced classes.

 

[jayoliver00]

Haha, well that's the dream!



Now that's one problem I definitely don't have. Hooks have got to be my favourite technique, and definitely one that's allowed! Plus being on the shorter side means I'm quite happy with people taking it into close range. Definitely will need to practice the clinch game, as it is not something I've done a huge amount of before, but I'll be trying to (gently ) punish anyone that lingers with hooks to the body.

We'll see how it goes, only done some gentle play sparring focussed on specific techniques so far and mostly training with people relatively new to martial arts, but with more time in muay thai. Got to learn all the MT fundamentals before I moved into more advanced classes.

Yea, your Sanda is way better than what I started with (TKD). Sanda is just as good as MT, w/the exception of the MT clinch; IMO.

But there are also Sanda grappling moves that are illegal in MT, so it's hard to say which grappling system from the 2 is better should they both go no rules for standup grappling. I've really transitioned more into a Sanda/KBoxer in the last 8 years or so, from purist MT.

 

[Damien]

Yea, your Sanda is way better than what I started with (TKD). Sanda is just as good as MT, w/the exception of the MT clinch; IMO.

But there are also Sanda grappling moves that are illegal in MT, so it's hard to say which grappling system from the 2 is better should they both go no rules for standup grappling. I've really transitioned more into a Sanda/KBoxer in the last 8 years or so, from purist MT.

Yeah the grappling differences are one of the things I'm slowly adjusting my brain to. Lots of doing certain things that aren't allowed, so having to adjust my natural instincts when doing grappling drills.

Why are certain sweeps etc. not allowed in MT? I mean for an art that's perfectly happy to have flying knees and elbows to the face, it seems weird to not allow you to use the calf or back of the foot etc. in takedowns. Is it just an entertainment thing? They'd prefer to see people clinch up and send in lots of knees than wrestle around and end up on the floor?

 

[jayoliver00]

Yeah the grappling differences are one of the things I'm slowly adjusting my brain to. Lots of doing certain things that aren't allowed, so having to adjust my natural instincts when doing grappling drills.

Why are certain sweeps etc. not allowed in MT? I mean for an art that's perfectly happy to have flying knees and elbows to the face, it seems weird to not allow you to use the calf or back of the foot etc. in takedowns. Is it just an entertainment thing? They'd prefer to see people clinch up and send in lots of knees than wrestle around and end up on the floor?

Yes that's it, I'm pretty sure, to see knees (and elbows) thrown in the clinch. Otherwise, hip throws, reaping, trips, etc. would just negate this right away almost.

I'm not an expert on historical MT or M Boran or anything, but I bet it's also due to the Gamblers. MT is big business in Thailand, and the Gamblers drive a lot of the way things go. That's also prob. why it's only three, 3min rounds. They want to see maximum carnage in a short period of time & then go on to betting on the next fight; not too much grappling, esp. on the ground.

 

[Damien]

Yes that's it, I'm pretty sure, to see knees (and elbows) thrown in the clinch. Otherwise, hip throws, reaping, trips, etc. would just negate this right away almost.

I'm not an expert on historical MT or M Boran or anything, but I bet it's also due to the Gamblers. MT is big business in Thailand, and the Gamblers drive a lot of the way things go. That's also prob. why it's only three, 3min rounds. They want to see maximum carnage in a short period of time & then go on to betting on the next fight; not too much grappling, esp. on the ground.

Interesting. It's funny how styles can develop with weird idiosyncrasies. But can't argue with entertainment right?

I've been finding Karate Combat a lot more interesting to watch than UFC because of the limitations on the ground game. Only so much rolling around on the floor I can watch, even if it is effective.

 

[jayoliver00]

Interesting. It's funny how styles can develop with weird idiosyncrasies. But can't argue with entertainment right?

I've been finding Karate Combat a lot more interesting to watch than UFC because of the limitations on the ground game. Only so much rolling around on the floor I can watch, even if it is effective.

There's really not that much ground fighting in the UFC for the last 10+ years at least now; due to Dana White's unofficial initiative of keeping fights "more exciting" and calling Fulltime Grapplers like Damian Maia, "human blankets"....haha (I bet he gives them less fights & less pay too). Fighters have greatly adjusted to this, with the exception of some of the specialists grapplers and grapplers like Khabib who does keep it exciting.

I do like the Karate Combat's stage much better though, much easier to see than through a cage.