MMA would never work in a real fight.

[Egon]

First to define, MMA for me stand for mixed martial arts; not for sport rules defined by organizations like ufc, pride, and so on.

Do I think fighters that fight in minimal rules fight are effective on the street? I think they are closer to it then most of traditional martial artists. They do live trainings and full contact sparrings using moves that are proven to work.

They know hot to kick, punch, grapple, trap, block, evade. And how to do it with truly resisting opponent.

If they turned their training and mental focus on the street fight I am pretty sure they would be bloody effective.

Just to say, speaking about term mma, every effective fighter and martial artist I ever knewed, was mixing arts.

 

[Tez3]

First to define, MMA for me stand for mixed martial arts; not for sport rules defined by organizations like ufc, pride, and so on.

Do I think fighters that fight in minimal rules fight are effective on the street? I think they are closer to it then most of traditional martial artists. They do live trainings and full contact sparrings using moves that are proven to work.

They know hot to kick, punch, grapple, trap, block, evade. And how to do it with truly resisting opponent.

If they turned their training and mental focus on the street fight I am pretty sure they would be bloody effective.

Just to say, speaking about term mma, every effective fighter and martial artist I ever knewed, was mixing arts.

MMa does indeed stand for Mixed Martial Arts which is the rules type of competition, training in different styles is cross training. However MMA fighters don't usually spar in the gym full contact, it's a common misconception that training is done full contact, it isn't. The competition is full contact like boxing and training is hard.
People who survive 'on the street' (still hate that) do so because of their mindeset and their ability to react and respond appropriately. You don't actually need martial arts training to do this, it helps but isn't the prime ingredient to surviving an attack. Part of the ability to react is being able to think under pressure, not to freeze and to not be too fazed at the time about being struck. It's about the person not the style.

 

[Egon]

MMa does indeed stand for Mixed Martial Arts which is the rules type of competition, training in different styles is cross training. However MMA fighters don't usually spar in the gym full contact, it's a common misconception that training is done full contact, it isn't. The competition is full contact like boxing and training is hard.
People who survive 'on the street' (still hate that) do so because of their mindeset and their ability to react and respond appropriately. You don't actually need martial arts training to do this, it helps but isn't the prime ingredient to surviving an attack. Part of the ability to react is being able to think under pressure, not to freeze and to not be too fazed at the time about being struck. It's about the person not the style.

Thanks for correcting me. I always thought mma stands for literally mixing martial arts, and cross training for training two or more arts without actually mixing them.

I didn't mean that they spar full contact on training (but many clubs I know goes almost full).

I couldn't agree more with the rest of what you said; it's definitely about the person! I

Thread question was how would mma work in the street, I think mma practicioners are pretty close to required mindset, because they are used to adrenaline and hard attacks.

Of course it stands for any martial artist who goes beyond his comfort zone using resisting opponent using minimal rules..

 

[Tez3]

On Facebook this morning and saw this posted by Iain Abernethy, I thought how apt for this thread!

"One whose spirit and mental strength have been strengthened by sparring with a never-say-die attitude should find no challenge too great to handle. One who has undergone long years of physical pain and mental agony to learn one punch, one kick, should be able to face any task, no matter how difficult, and carry it through to the end. A person like this can truly be said to have learned karate."– Gichin Funakoshi

 

[Mz1]

You said, "I think that people who are scared to fight, scared to spar hard, etc. are usually the ones thinking that MMA won't work on the streets."
To begin with, I was quite a bit less experienced over a year ago. Other than that, I was addressing that full force sparring isnt the only way to learn. I used Kata as a comparison of reasoning.
"Thats similar to the Logic that Kata" =/= "YOU SAID KATA DOESNT WORK".

I never said that full force sparring is the only way to learn.

Your last sentence doesn't make any sense.

Im pretty sure any good gym will train You up rigorously for an upcoming fight.

Usually, they're only good if they include sparring for full knockouts as part of their training. Especially when prepping for fights.

And exactly how often do You see them used in those formats of competition?

Are you serious? Sidekicks works well against pure Muay Thai and very annoying. And going from orthodox stance to southpaw to throw a sidekick with the power leg and then follow up with hard jabs with the power hand works often. Then there's the fake rear leg kick that turns into a sidekick, which also works.

Aha. How does that relate to MMA not being BJJ + Striking even though some people treat it like it is?

I just told you. MMA in the early UFC was mostly BJJ but now it's more Muay Thai & Boxing....with BJJ being a necessity to defend against takedowns.

Actually, i sort of trailed off and on about something that could have been answered with a short sentence, because the Me of one year ago jumped to conclusions and put too many cards on the table too early on.
I can stand by the last bit, though. If someone doesnt think MMA works, it doesnt have to be because Theyre afraid of hard sparring. They might just not like the format of competition. Or They might really dislike grappling. So on, so forth. For that matter, that last statement was probably the only one that was actually relevant.

They're ignorant then and probably never sparred for KO's vs. someone trained in an MMA gym, let alone fight in the ring or cage. Getting punched in the face at full force, is getting punched in the face at full force. How would this not work in the streets like it does in the ring & cage?

 

[Mz1]

MMa does indeed stand for Mixed Martial Arts which is the rules type of competition, training in different styles is cross training.

MMA rules is not going to save you against an experienced MMA fighter who knocks you out with, say....a single elbow to the face and then goes into bloodlust and starts soccer kicking your head or stomping it repeatedly while you lay unconscious on the cement. Your head caves in, your brain oozes out, you die and he goes to jail for life. I think MMA does work in the streets. There's no special chip that MMA gyms implants into our head that forces us to always fight by MMA rules in the streets, prison, whatever.

However MMA fighters don't usually spar in the gym full contact, it's a common misconception that training is done full contact, it isn't.

Sparring with boxing gloves is certainly at 10-100% power and often. Average sparring is at 60-70% power, which hurts like hell and easily spikes to all out 100% when someone gets mad. There's light and touch sparring too. Prepping for an upcoming fight, then there's going to be lots of hard sparring for KO's.

With the 7oz MMA, open finger gloves, then we are very careful and go much lighter because we don't want to cut each other or even eye poke by accident. Plus, we don't want to break our hands due to less protection.

The grappling is certainly done at 80-100% most times during training.

The competition is full contact like boxing and training is hard.
People who survive 'on the street' (still hate that) do so because of their mindeset and their ability to react and respond appropriately. You don't actually need martial arts training to do this, it helps but isn't the prime ingredient to surviving an attack.

Part of the ability to react is being able to think under pressure, not to freeze and to not be too fazed at the time about being struck.

An experienced MMA fighter who spars hard often and fights often in competition will be much more equipped than the average slob/toughguy in the streets. When fists, feet, knees, etc. are being thrown at you often and every week on a regular basis as routine training....and trying to KO your partner while he's trying to do the same to you is considered fun by both parties....then how does this not toughen anyone up physically and mentally? Streetfighters don't even fight every week, MMA fighters do when sparring hard. Boxing class is usually at least 2-4 rounds of all out, 100% power shots.

It's about the person not the style.

Nope. It's about the person, the style(s) and the gym/coach(es). All affects the outcome of the fight.

 

[Cyriacus]

I never said that full force sparring is the only way to learn.
Your last sentence doesn't make any sense.

My last sentence made perfect sense. Ill spell it out to you.
I said, ""Thats similar to the Logic that Kata"
I did not say, "YOU SAID KATA DOESNT WORK".
=/= means 'equals different to'.

Usually, they're only good if they include sparring for full knockouts as part of their training. Especially when prepping for fights.

You realise I was agreeing with You there, right?

Are you serious? Sidekicks works well against pure Muay Thai and very annoying. And going from orthodox stance to southpaw to throw a sidekick with the power leg and then follow up with hard jabs with the power hand works often. Then there's the fake rear leg kick that turns into a sidekick, which also works.

I know it does. Now show Me a side kick being used in a Muay Thai bout by more than one or two fighters who are probably known for it, and who are more than likely trained in a different style. I never said They dont work, I said You dont see Them in those formats of competition.

I just told you. MMA in the early UFC was mostly BJJ but now it's more Muay Thai & Boxing....with BJJ being a necessity to defend against takedowns.

Mate, I said
"Theres a Thread in the MMA Forum here, asking why theres less Ground Game in MMA - To which I still reply, that MMA is not BJJ with Striking.
The thing is though, is that thats exactly how SOME People Train in it."
You replied with
"No, MMA in early UFC's was a lot about the ground game where BJJ dominated. Most people never saw that back then. This is why it made BJJ so popular. Now that MMA has evolved, the audience have got bored of grappling for 2+ hours. Dana White is giving fighters more incentives to keep it standing. He always states that he wants to see exciting fights w/spectacular finishes. He doesn't come out and say to keep it standing, but the fighters understands that if they want to get fights in the UFC and get paid, this is where the UFC currently is situated."
So are You saying, You started Your original reply with, "No, --" because I was right? That MMA is not, at this time, " not BJJ with Striking."?
Where was I wrong exactly? I brought up the issue that some places train like thats exactly the case.

Lemme reword it. MMA has less of a ground game nowadays. Thats what I said, and was saying. Yet Youre talking like that needs to be explained to Me.

They're ignorant then and probably never sparred for KO's vs. someone trained in an MMA gym, let alone fight in the ring or cage. Getting punched in the face at full force, is getting punched in the face at full force. How would this not work in the streets like it does in the ring & cage?

I never said it didnt.

 

[Mz1]

My last sentence made perfect sense. Ill spell it out to you.
I said, ""Thats similar to the Logic that Kata"
I did not say, "YOU SAID KATA DOESNT WORK".
=/= means 'equals different to'.

Still doesn't make sense.

I know it does. Now show Me a side kick being used in a Muay Thai bout by more than one or two fighters who are probably known for it, and who are more than likely trained in a different style. I never said They dont work, I said You dont see Them in those formats of competition.

I see sidekicks in MMA, just not often. I used sidekicks in my MT fights. They are annoying, just not much damage. They leave your nuts exposed, which is not a good thing.

Lemme reword it. MMA has less of a ground game nowadays. Thats what I said, and was saying. Yet Youre talking like that needs to be explained to Me.

What you said wasn't very clear.

 

[Cyriacus]

Still doesn't make sense.

Ill reword it again then.
I said "I never accused you of saying that Kata are ineffective".

I see sidekicks in MMA, just not often.

Of course theyre in MMA, albeit not often at all. Though i was talking about Muay Thai.

I used sidekicks in my MT fights. They are annoying, just not much damage.

Congratulations - Youre a rare exception.
Now, where (In what Martial Art) did you learn side kicks, and how regularly did you practice them? Did you hit with the heel, or the foot sword? Did you use it at long range, hitting at the end of the extension, or at a closer range to facilitate a push as well as a kick? Did You target the abdomen, or the ribs?
Also, how is Your using side kicks as an annoyance relevant to the fact that theyre sorely neglected due to people thinking They dont tend to work very well or very powerfully?

Side Kicks being used as a defensive push.

Sliding Side Kick, which can be used to close distance.
My original statement was the lack of awareness of the many variations of side kicks, and how theyre taken for granted.

They leave your nuts exposed, which is not a good thing.

So do high roundhouse kicks, but you see them in MMA and MT fairly often.
In fact, just about all high kicks do that.

What you said wasn't very clear.

Is it clear now?

 

[Kaygee]

I am not going to sit here and lie and say that I read every single post in this thread. I did read a lot of them though. After studying a traditional martial art for a couple of years and now that I am getting a taste of MMA, I am wondering (and please don't take this the wrong way) how many of you have really been in a street fight? I have been in dozens.....lost most of them (All of them pre-training). But being in that many fights, I can tell you that the things that I see in MMA can be applied to a street fight very, very easily!

Hell, I see fights every time I am out somewhere....when I was younger, the neighborhood was rough and I was fighting everyday. When I went to high-school, a high-school for "bad kids", I was fighting for my frikkin life everyday. If I knew how to hold my hands, if I knew how to throw a couple of jabs to get someone in a position to throw a big right, and if I knew HOW to throw that big right, and if I had the cardio to keep up on my toes the whole time and the knowledge of what to do when someone got me on the ground, then I would not have the severe social phobia that I now experience!

Now, the kicks that I learned while studying Tang Soo Do will work, but only (in my opinion) if you have the handwork and footwork to go with it. Otherwise, I felt like a T-Rex when I was practicing Tang Soo Do.

I think it would all work, but most of all, MMA! The boxing and the grappling, is fantastic! And honestly, if you were about to get jumped by some idiot in a bar, just run from them and let them chase you.....after you run a block and he is out of breath, run back to him and ask him if he still has a problem. Chances are, he won't.

I think the fact that MMA is used in the ring is causing the training to be underestimated in some sort of way. Sure, you don't want to have some guy on the ground in a lock while three of his friends are there....but would you rather not know MMA, or any sort of training? Or would you rather know some sort of training? It may just save your life if you have to run your *** out of there!

 

[James Kovacich]

Saying or thinking MMA won't work in a real fight is as stupid as saying boxing won't work in a real fight.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk

 

[Mz1]

Ill reword it again then.
I said "I never accused you of saying that Kata are ineffective".

Thanks. Now it makes sense.

Congratulations - Youre a rare exception.
Now, where (In what Martial Art) did you learn side kicks, and how regularly did you practice them? Did you hit with the heel, or the foot sword? Did you use it at long range, hitting at the end of the extension, or at a closer range to facilitate a push as well as a kick? Did You target the abdomen, or the ribs?
Also, how is Your using side kicks as an annoyance relevant to the fact that theyre sorely neglected due to people thinking They dont tend to work very well or very powerfully?

Side Kicks being used as a defensive push.

Sliding Side Kick, which can be used to close distance.
My original statement was the lack of awareness of the many variations of side kicks, and how theyre taken for granted.

I use side kicks usually for annoyances only and hit with my heel. I can spam a ton of them from my TKD days and they act like jabs. But once they figure it out, they start parrying.

So do high roundhouse kicks, but you see them in MMA and MT fairly often.
In fact, just about all high kicks do that.

No, because in Muay Thai, when 2 orthodox stances faces each other, the one going for the high roundhouse is usually countered by a step, lead leg kick to the leg. Step lead legs kicks are seldom to the mid section. They're a probing technique in MT. Unless they do a switchstep, lead leg....which is too late against the other guy's rear leg roundhouse to the head.

While a sidekick is often done with a switch stance to put the power leg up front, which now turned orthodox-orthodox into orthodox-southpaw open guard. The sidekick also usually moves forward even with just a little slide, which bring your groin in the line of fire of the orthodox rear leg kick.

 

[Mz1]

I think the fact that MMA is used in the ring is causing the training to be underestimated in some sort of way. Sure, you don't want to have some guy on the ground in a lock while three of his friends are there....but would you rather not know MMA, or any sort of training? Or would you rather know some sort of training? It may just save your life if you have to run your *** out of there!

Excellent post. Most people who thinks that MMA is just a sport and not as effective on the streets as the pretend fighting that most Self Defense classes teaches are just ignorant and have not really fought before....against someone who can fight. Just because they pretend to kick someone in the balls or pretend to poke someone in the eye, doesn't mean that they can really do that in a real fight. Fighting in MMA, we worry about getting kicked in the balls or poked in the eye all the time. When that fist, foot or knee is thrown towards me, I don't really care if its intent is to target a legal or illegal body part of mine. I'm just going to address it like I normally do....get out of the way, block, block & return, counter, or whatever. Who's going to be better at this? Someone who play fights or someone who spars hard and fights often in the ring and cage?

Most people don't realize this, but a fight in the ring or cage, DOES INDEED, begin as a fight to the DEATH. Both competitors are really trying to kill each other with their firsts, legs, knees, elbows, etc. They are throwing all of their power and might in trying to kill the other guy. If you get KO'ed, your life now belongs to your opponent. He can chose to kill you as you lay there unconscious, should he chose to. Same with a simple BJJ choke hold, it's a death move. The only reason no one dies in the ring/cage is obviously because there's a ref who stops it or the corner that throws in the towel or the fighter taps out. How would someone who's trained & experienced at punching people in the face not be effective on the streets? That's like saying that Mike Tyson is worthless as a streetfighter? Think some self defense hotshot can walk up to Tyson and poke him in the eye. That's just like one of millions of jabs that were thrown at his face by those much better than some random TMA guy. Guess what? He's going to freaking destroy you.

 

[Mz1]

Okay well it seems there is still a little confusion as to just exactly what a "real" fight is.

A "real" fight is to the Death.

Sorry, but there are tons of videos on YouTube and especially on Rated R & X sites that have very brutal streetfights, jumps, attacks, muggings, etc. where it's extremely rare that anyone ever dies.....maybe like 1 or 2 in at least a thousand that I've seen.

Usually other people breaks up the fight, especially after a KO or even when the loser has had enough. The winner usually also stops inflicting punishment even, after he sees that he won. Just like in a ring/cage fight with referees.

This notion that a fight is only "REAL" if it's to the death is baloney. And the more trained & experienced that I am, I don't have to worry about killing someone. I can take more chances and play with them (showing that I wasn't looking for a fight) and worry less about going to jail afterward for maiming someone or even for the cause their death.

 

[Tez3]

Excellent post. Most people who thinks that MMA is just a sport and not as effective on the streets as the pretend fighting that most Self Defense classes teaches are just ignorant and have not really fought before....against someone who can fight. Just because they pretend to kick someone in the balls or pretend to poke someone in the eye, doesn't mean that they can really do that in a real fight. Fighting in MMA, we worry about getting kicked in the balls or poked in the eye all the time. When that fist, foot or knee is thrown towards me, I don't really care if its intent is to target a legal or illegal body part of mine. I'm just going to address it like I normally do....get out of the way, block, block & return, counter, or whatever. Who's going to be better at this? Someone who play fights or someone who spars hard and fights often in the ring and cage?

Most people don't realize this, but a fight in the ring or cage, DOES INDEED, begin as a fight to the DEATH. Both competitors are really trying to kill each other with their firsts, legs, knees, elbows, etc. They are throwing all of their power and might in trying to kill the other guy. If you get KO'ed, your life now belongs to your opponent. He can chose to kill you as you lay there unconscious, should he chose to. Same with a simple BJJ choke hold, it's a death move. The only reason no one dies in the ring/cage is obviously because there's a ref who stops it or the corner that throws in the towel or the fighter taps out. How would someone who's trained & experienced at punching people in the face not be effective on the streets? That's like saying that Mike Tyson is worthless as a streetfighter? Think some self defense hotshot can walk up to Tyson and poke him in the eye. That's just like one of millions of jabs that were thrown at his face by those much better than some random TMA guy. Guess what? He's going to freaking destroy you.

Fight to the death? What bollocks! I think you are getting a little macho here, how long have you been invovled in MMA, properly as a fighter, judges, ref, coach, corner etc? They aren't trying to kill each other they are trying to defeat each other, I don't know about the so called fighters you seem to know but the ones I know aren't out to kill anyone! MMA is a game ( note the word game) of physical chess! I think you are getting a little carried away here.

 

[Mz1]

Fight to the death? What bollocks! I think you are getting a little macho here, how long have you been invovled in MMA, properly as a fighter, judges, ref, coach, corner etc? They aren't trying to kill each other they are trying to defeat each other, I don't know about the so called fighters you seem to know but the ones I know aren't out to kill anyone! MMA is a game ( note the word game) of physical chess! I think you are getting a little carried away here.

Homey, try to read what I wrote in context and understand it first.

What do you think a choke hold is? It's a death move.

 

[Tez3]

Homey, try to read what I wrote in context and understand it first.

What do you think a choke hold is? It's a death move.

Homey? homey? Are you kidding me? would you call your mother that? I've forgetten more about MMA than you know son, so please don't give me attitude. 'Death move' my ****, it's a technique so call it that.

 

[Mz1]

Homey? homey? Are you kidding me? would you call your mother that? I've forgetten more about MMA than you know son, so please don't give me attitude. 'Death move' my ****, it's a technique so call it that.

Haha, homey is a friendly term sheeesh. Too much coffee I see, chill out. And yes, a choke hold is a death move. Maybe you're just doing it wrong.

 

[Tez3]

Haha, homey is a friendly term sheeesh. Too much coffee I see, chill out. And yes, a choke hold is a death move. Maybe you're just doing it wrong.

It's not friendly to a middle class tea drinking English woman. And I do my chokes perfectly effectively thank you, both in martial arts and 'on the street' which may surprise you but in my job I have need to 'neck' people occasionally. I also teach correct techniques to pro fighters as well as coach, ref and corner them. I have extensive experience in professional MMA where, here at least, we don't go for the postruing macho talk of 'death moves', it's a technique that has various uses not just to 'kill'.

 

[Mz1]

then you should know that a choke hold is a death move. and i thought that all english people drink tea, regardless of class