mma is a made up martial art.

[Dirty Dog]

Of course not. Judo is a martial art. BJJ, Sambo, TKD, Shotokan Karate... all martial arts. When you mash them together and use them in a cage under the unified ruleset of MMA, they remain martial arts, but the sum becomes a sport.

Or a Martial Art. Kajukenbo, for example. Or Hapkido. Or even Taekwondo, since although it was primarily derived from Shotokan, there are also other influences.

Genre typically refers to a sub category of an art form: music, literature, film, painting, sculpture. If you want to push the "art" in martial art, I get where you're going, but it's not really the same thing.
That said, it's not worth arguing. I understand how you're using the term, and that's what really matters. Given your use of the term, I still disagree that MMA is a genre of martial art. If anything, it's a sport that incorporates many genres of MA according to various formulas... recipes if you will.

Well, it wasn't my use. I just quoted it and didn't think it was worth picking the nit. It's close enough that I can see an argument for it's use.

 

[Steve]

Or a Martial Art. Kajukenbo, for example. Or Hapkido. Or even Taekwondo, since although it was primarily derived from Shotokan, there are also other influences.

Sure, as I said, MMA may become a martial arts style one day. It's not there, yet, IMO. Still too fluid. If you look at Kajukenbo, Hapkido or TKD, the canon of techniques is well fixed. The curriculum is consistent.

If you look at the websites for any of these three styles of MA, you will see specific techniques, katas, and drills that define the style.

Well, it wasn't my use. I just quoted it and didn't think it was worth picking the nit. It's close enough that I can see an argument for it's use.

I get it. Honestly, the term isn't all that important. What I interpreted you to suggest is that MMA is its own martial arts style. I just don't think it's that well defined yet, although some day it may become so.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I get it. Honestly, the term isn't all that important. What I interpreted you to suggest is that MMA is its own martial arts style. I just don't think it's that well defined yet, although some day it may become so.

I think we probably mostly agree that MMA is in the process of becoming a distinct, recognizable style. There's room for disagreement regarding how far along that process it is. Depending on how you view a "style" it may be just beginning to take shape or it may be most of the way there.

 

[Steve]

I think we probably mostly agree that MMA is in the process of becoming a distinct, recognizable style. There's room for disagreement regarding how far along that process it is. Depending on how you view a "style" it may be just beginning to take shape or it may be most of the way there.

As long as we have guys who are successful in MMA using esoteric techniques, MMA will not be a specific style. While there are common ingredients in the recipe (BJJ, wrestling, Muay Thai, Boxing) there are plenty of other possible ingredients as well (san shou, shotokan karate, judo, kenpo). It's just very fluid.

In another thread, Hanzou asked why we don't see Aikido in MMA. The answer is that there is no reason. Aikido doesn't really lend itself to the sport, but it wouldn't surprise me at all to see someone incorporate elements of his aikido training into the mix. Same could be said for Silat, Capoiera, Kajukenbo or systema. No single style will be very successful in MMA, but the sport is too young to suggest that the style is fully canonized.

Lyoto Machida is known as a Shotokan guy, but he's also a black belt in BJJ. And would it surprise anyone here to know that he's got a background in Sumo?

 

[Transk53]

Lyoto Machida is known as a Shotokan guy, but he's also a black belt in BJJ. And would it surprise anyone here to know that he's got a background in Sumo?

Myself for one!

 

[Steve]

Myself for one!

The man himself...

 

[Transk53]

@Steve yes that very interesting, thanks. I read a little on him after seeing "Never Back Down 2". Sumo though, really not that supprising. The guys a genius martial artist imho

 

[Dr.Smith]

I played Hockey as a kid and was quit a little goon by the way. I couldnt call it a martial completely but there is a right and a wrong way to hockey fight, just sayin.
Ok guys break the name down "MMA" mixed martial arts, ok the name says it all, so yes it is a martial art. Now as far as it being argued that its a sport, yes it is a sport, like boxing,kick boxing,judo,pancration,wrestleing and Jujitsu. So what kind of sport is it well thats easy to ansewer its a combat sport, ok.
How is 'mma" a genre thats easy too, MMA as a rule set allows grapleing there for those arts designed for those contest rules fall in the genre of "MMA". Still dont believe me, ok is boxing a sport? Is it a martial art? HMMM I think both if you really think about it.
If you were looking for a place to train and you wanted a jujitsu/kick boxing mix you wouldnt settle for a boxing/wrestleing mix right, so how would you tell the difference first off you would have to know what arts the instructors mix, you might also be able to identify the style if it had a reckignizeable name, i.e. Nogueria MMA, BJJ boxing. Thats my poin not all MMA is the same.

 

[Dr.Smith]

Ok please let my twenty years of Hybrid Karate shine some light on how this actually works if you will.

In the sporting world you have multiple degrees of compitition and many different sportting activites.
These are sports, Baseball,swimming,ice hocky.
These are "combat Sports" Judo, wrestleing, Boxing, MMA, Kick boxing, Karate, TKD, Savate, Muai Thai, fenceing...See the difference, and notice how many Martial arts and traditional martial arts are actually competitive and done at many different levels by many different athletes just like baseball and swimming.
But in the martial arts theres a catch...Hybrid systems of martial arts often times can cross over into MMA, and kick boxing/boxing. This depends on the Hybrid mix and be sure to note that most hybrid mixes were not created specifically for compitition which is sometimes the only difference between MMA and hybrid martial arts.

 

[drop bear]

I guess I just don't think "genre" is the right word here.

MMA is a sport. And the sport is quite well defined. So, yeah, I agree that MMA and Hockey have some things in common. Neither, however, is a martial arts style. Both are sports with well established rule sets.

If you're saying that Mixed Martial Arts is a style of martial arts, at this time I disagree. It may become a standardized martial art in the future, but the formula for success in the cage is still very fluid.

Same with bjj though. That is still evolving through competition.

 

[Transk53]

I played Hockey as a kid and was quit a little goon by the way. I couldnt call it a martial completely but there is a right and a wrong way to hockey fight, just sayin.
Ok guys break the name down "MMA" mixed martial arts, ok the name says it all, so yes it is a martial art. Now as far as it being argued that its a sport, yes it is a sport, like boxing,kick boxing,judo,pancration,wrestleing and Jujitsu. So what kind of sport is it well thats easy to ansewer its a combat sport, ok.
How is 'mma" a genre thats easy too, MMA as a rule set allows grapleing there for those arts designed for those contest rules fall in the genre of "MMA". Still dont believe me, ok is boxing a sport? Is it a martial art? HMMM I think both if you really think about it.
If you were looking for a place to train and you wanted a jujitsu/kick boxing mix you wouldnt settle for a boxing/wrestleing mix right, so how would you tell the difference first off you would have to know what arts the instructors mix, you might also be able to identify the style if it had a reckignizeable name, i.e. Nogueria MMA, BJJ boxing. Thats my poin not all MMA is the same.

Exactly. Why I cannot see it being unified into a coherent form, or being codified as it were.

 

[drop bear]

Of course not. Judo is a martial art. BJJ, Sambo, TKD, Shotokan Karate... all martial arts. When you mash them together and use them in a cage under the unified ruleset of MMA, they remain martial arts, but the sum becomes a sport. Genre typically refers to a sub category of an art form: music, literature, film, painting, sculpture. If you want to push the "art" in martial art, I get where you're going, but it's not really the same thing.

That said, it's not worth arguing. I understand how you're using the term, and that's what really matters. Given your use of the term, I still disagree that MMA is a genre of martial art. If anything, it's a sport that incorporates many genres of MA according to various formulas... recipes if you will.

Depends on the club. A bjj club that competes in mma. Then mma is a rule set.

A mma club that trains in its own right. (And as i said you can earn a Greg Jackson mma belt) it is a martial art. And then bjj becomes a drill.

 

[Dr.Smith]

Depends on the club. A bjj club that competes in mma. Then mma is a rule set.

A mma club that trains in its own right. (And as i said you can earn a Greg Jackson mma belt) it is a martial art. And then bjj becomes a drill.

Bear what is your Martial arts Back Ground?

 

[Transk53]

This is going to be interesting.

 

[drop bear]

Bear what is your Martial arts Back Ground?

doing mma at the moment a bit of judo and a bit of karate. Otherwise i have done a lot of different stuff.

 

[Transk53]

doing mma at the moment a bit of judo and a bit of karate. Otherwise i have done a lot of different stuff.

Makes sense.

 

[Dr.Smith]

How Many years have you studied and trained?

 

[drop bear]

I originally started with judo and Japanese jujitsu. For about five years. Then did a freestyle karate. Kickboxing and muai Thai. For about five or six years. Did scientific fighting congress Australia. Trained for four years. Taught it full time for a year. Did two styles of capoeira over mabye 3 or 4 years. Mma and boxing over 3 or 4 years.
and piddled about with some other stuff in between.

some of those overlapped. And there is some arts i did that i missed out because they are a bit embarrassing.

 

[Dr.Smith]

What sort of compitition back ground do you have?

 

[Steve]

Regarding the term "genre" I have no real problem calling it a genre, if that's what you want. It's a misuse of the term, but who cares? I'm not hung up on it as long as I know what you mean when you say it. That said, if you're using "genre" to refer to a unique and distinct style of martial art, I think you're mistaken.

BJJ existed as a martial art before BJJ competition came about, just as Judo, Muay Thai, TKD and Kyokushin Karate did. In all of these cases, the competition continues to shape the martial art, but a martial art it remains as it was prior to the competitive elements.

MMA, unlike BJJ, Judo or TKD, began as a contest and evolved into a sport that was eventually brought together under a unified rule set. While modern MMA was percolating and evolving for a long while prior to 2001, it wasn't until New Jersey drafted the unified rule set and Nevada used these rules to sanction an event that MMA was truly born. There was no "MMA" school prior to the sport of MMA.

Guys, you're welcome to your opinions. But you will never convince me that MMA is, at this point, other than a sport. Comparisons to BJJ or Boxing just don't work. Decades from now, when the training and techniques for MMA have become standardized, and people train exclusively for MMA events in "MMA" gyms, I might change my mind. But we're not there yet.