Michael Moore has gone into hiding....

[Jeff Boler]

http://www.michaelmoore.com

He of all people should be happy with the results of the election. That's just four more years he has to make movies about the Bush foreign policies.

On a slightly different note, is anyone surprised at the lack of "younger" voters in this race? Turnout was much, much lower than initial estimates.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

I believe that the young voter turnout was the same as in the 2000 election, which is a shame....

Aren't they all worried that P Diddy will find them?

Seriously, it's ridiculous. I was so delighted and tried to be very informed and cautious when I first got to vote.

 

[Jeff Boler]

In talking to some of the college aged students that I have, they simply stated that they didn't like either candidate, therefore, didn't vote. The one common thing that I did hear was that they were tired of the negative campaign attacks, and it simply turned them off.

I have to admit, the candidates from both sides of the fence were pretty weak in a variety of different areas. Something that I hope will be corrected next time.

Any predictions for 2008? I'm expecting a Clinton vs Guiliani (sp?) showdown.

 

[PeachMonkey]

Any predictions for 2008? I'm expecting a Clinton vs Guiliani (sp?) showdown.

If the Democratic Party actually thinks that Hilary Clinton would be a viable, decent candidate... let's just say that my third-party leanings would be dramatically reinforced.

 

[RandomPhantom700]

You know, it is quite possible that Michael Moore was in this for more than just to make money off of movie sales...his documentaries seems to have a deeper agenda behind them.

As for younger voters, I sure know I voted, as did my friends from undergrad and in law school. I don't think I've heard anyone so far say that they haven't voted.

 

[RRouuselot]

Michael Moore has gone into hiding????

I don't see how someone so fat could hide......the man is truly disgusting to look at.
I find Moore an obnoxious moron that seemed to remain fairly quite when Clinton was running around dipping his wick into half a dozen females and baulking as President in so many areas. Moore’s myopic fixation with GW Bush seems nothing more than a self serving way to get richer….and fatter. His movies play on the fears and anxieties that many people have and don’t really enlighten anyone.

Mind you I disliked both candidates this election....I just disliked Kerry more. If Colin Powell ran as an independent I think I would have voted for him instead.

 

[heretic888]

I find Moore an obnoxious moron that seemed to remain fairly quite when Clinton was running around dipping his wick into half a dozen females and baulking as President in so many areas.

Yup.

Because economic prosperity (resulting in a rather large surplus which Dubya subsequently squandered), record employment rates, revitalized social security and welfare, and --- surprise! surprise! --- nothing even remotely similar to September 11......

.... all indeed are indications of him "baulking as President".

But, hey, none of that matters as long as our Good Ol' Boy dudn't sleep around none, neh??

 

[auxprix]

In talking to some of the college aged students that I have, they simply stated that they didn't like either candidate, therefore, didn't vote. The one common thing that I did hear was that they were tired of the negative campaign attacks, and it simply turned them off.

I have to admit, the candidates from both sides of the fence were pretty weak in a variety of different areas. Something that I hope will be corrected next time.

Any predictions for 2008? I'm expecting a Clinton vs Guiliani (sp?) showdown.

An ex of mine is a hardcore domestic politics person (and she has the degree to show for it) so I asked her what she thought. Her bet for the republican was on Frist from TN. As for the Democrat, Hillary is unlikely, apparently.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

I'm hearing people talk about Evan Bayh, not Hillary. Hillary might run, but she'll never get the nomination.

Bayh is actually squeaky clean. Never smoked dope...I mean he really didn't. I heard this from someone who tried to get him to take a toke. He was a few years behind me at I.U., I recall. I don't think he'll get the nomination either.



Regards,



Steve

 

[RRouuselot]

Yup.

Because economic prosperity (resulting in a rather large surplus which Dubya subsequently squandered), record employment rates, revitalized social security and welfare, and --- surprise! surprise! --- nothing even remotely similar to September 11......

.... all indeed are indications of him "baulking as President".

But, hey, none of that matters as long as our Good Ol' Boy dudn't sleep around none, neh??

Yeah right……..Clinton was responsible for only good things and made no mistakes

Nothing like the Internet boom/ computer and the subsequent technology boom in the mid 90’s that created literally millions of jobs, in America and world wide, over the next decade had nothing to do with the economy.
Oh but that’s right Al Gore claimed to have invented the Internet……so yeah I can see how that was part of Clinton’s economic plan.
I would bet dollars to donuts that if Columbine happened on GW’s watch Moore would have tried to blame him for it.

You also forget that it was “Papa” Bush and many of the programs his administration started that either made or started that economic surplus that Clinton stepped into. And you also forget at the end of Clinton's years the economy wasn't doing that hot either.

Clinton was just as dirty as any other President and made plenty of mistakes at home and abroad but since Moore seems to be a Democrat so it makes it easy for him to look the other way at the mistakes of Clinton and Mr. “Waffle” Kerry when he is out hunting for material for another one of his cheap movies.
I do have to give some props to Kerry though. At least he had the “stones” and class to concede and didn’t whine like the big baby Al Gore did 4 years ago.

I think people like Moore are just pissed at the way Bush go into office the 1st time…….obviously enough people want him around a second time since he won both the popular and electoral votes.


As far as 9-11 and Bush go…….these terrorist cells didn’t just pop up over night……they had been growing for years…..one could argue that if Clinotn had been doing his job then 9-11 might not have happened……
And Bush gets stuck cleaning Slick Willy’s mess…….I seem to remember a certain federal building blowing up in Oklahoma…….. that happened on Slick Willy’s watch.

 

[Seig]

Robert,

Let's not forget the economic plans set in motion by Ronald Reagan. As I recall, he told everyone that we would have a boom period that would followed by a recession if steps were not taken within ten years to prevent it.

 

[RRouuselot]

...........But, hey, none of that matters as long as our Good Ol' Boy dudn't sleep around none, neh??

No actually what matters is he did sleep around not once but on several occasions, then lied to his wife about it, and THEN lied to the world about it!

Let’s not forget that Clinton was such a “great” President that he was impeached!!
Only two U.S. presidents have been impeached: Andrew Johnson, the seventeenth chief executive, and William J. Clinton, the forty-second.

 

[Jay Bell]

nothing even remotely similar to September 11......

C'mon bro...I can't even believe you'd post that bit. As Dick Morris explained, "Sure, we'll give Bush 8 months of blame regarding September 11th. If we do however, we must give 8 years to Bill Clinton." On more than one occasion, Morris was present when the threat of Al Queda was brought to Clinton's feet, and he waved it away, saying he wanted to do nothing about it..

 

[RRouuselot]

Here is Moore's latest email bash on Bush:



11/5/04

Dear Friends,

Ok, it sucks. Really sucks. But before you go and cash it all in, let's, in
the words of Monty Python, 'always look on the bright side of life!' There
IS some good news from Tuesday's election.

Here are 17 reasons not to slit your wrists:

1. It is against the law for George W. Bush to run for president again.

2. Bush's victory was the NARROWEST win for a sitting president since
Woodrow Wilson in 1916.

3. The only age group in which the majority voted for Kerry was young adults
(Kerry: 54%, Bush: 44%), proving once again that your parents are always
wrong and you should never listen to them.

4. In spite of Bush's win, the majority of Americans still think the
country is headed in the wrong direction (56%), think the war wasn't worth fighting (51%), and don't approve of the job George W. Bush is doing (52%). (Note to foreigners: Don't try to figure this one out. It's an American thing, like Pop Tarts.)

5. The Republicans will not have a filibuster-proof 60-seat majority in the
Senate. If the Democrats do their job, Bush won't be able to pack the
Supreme Court with right-wing ideologues. Did I say "if the Democrats do
their job?" Um, maybe better to scratch this one.

6. Michigan voted for Kerry! So did the entire Northeast, the birthplace of
our democracy. So did 6 of the 8 Great Lakes States. And the whole West
Coast! Plus Hawaii. Ok, that's a start. We've got most of the fresh water,
all of Broadway, and Mt. St. Helens. We can dehydrate them or bury them in
lava. And no more show tunes!

7. Once again we are reminded that the buckeye is a nut, and not just any
old nut -- a poisonous nut. A great nation was felled by a poisonous nut.
May Ohio State pay dearly this Saturday when it faces Michigan.

8. 88% of Bush's support came from white voters. In 50 years, America will
no longer have a white majority. Hey, 50 years isn't such a long time! If
you're ten years old and reading this, your golden years will be truly
golden and you will be well cared for in your old age.

9. Gays, thanks to the ballot measures passed on Tuesday, cannot get married
in 11 new states. Thank God. Just think of all those wedding gifts we won't
have to buy now.

10. Five more African Americans were elected as members of Congress,
including the return of Cynthia McKinney of Georgia. It's always good to
have more blacks in there fighting for us and doing the job our candidates
can't.

11. The CEO of Coors was defeated for Senate in Colorado. Drink up!

12. Admit it: We like the Bush twins and we don't want them to go away.

13. At the state legislative level, Democrats picked up a net of at least 3
chambers in Tuesday's elections. Of the 98 partisan-controlled state
legislative chambers (house/assembly and senate), Democrats went into the
2004 elections in control of 44 chambers, Republicans controlled 53
chambers, and 1 chamber was tied. After Tuesday, Democrats now control 47
chambers, Republicans control 49 chambers, 1 chamber is tied and 1 chamber
(Montana House) is still undecided.

14. Bush is now a lame duck president. He will have no greater moment than
the one he's having this week. It's all downhill for him from here on out --
and, more significantly, he's just not going to want to do all the hard work
that will be expected of him. It'll be like everyone's last month in 12th
grade -- you've already made it, so it's party time! Perhaps he'll treat the
next four years like a permanent Friday, spending even more time at the
ranch or in Kennebunkport. And why shouldn't he? He's already proved his
point, avenged his father and kicked our ***.

15. Should Bush decide to show up to work and take this country down a very
dark road, it is also just as likely that either of the following two
scenarios will happen: a) Now that he doesn't ever need to pander to the
Christian conservatives again to get elected, someone may whisper in his ear
that he should spend these last four years building "a legacy" so that
history will render a kinder verdict on him and thus he will not push for
too aggressive a right-wing agenda; or b) He will become so cocky and
arrogant -- and thus, reckless -- that he will commit a blunder of such
major proportions that even his own party will have to remove him from
office.

16. There are nearly 300 million Americans -- 200 million of them of voting
age. We only lost by three and a half million! That's not a landslide -- it
means we're almost there. Imagine losing by 20 million. If you had 58 yards
to go before you reached the goal line and then you barreled down 55 of
those yards, would you stop on the three yard line, pick up the ball and go
home crying -- especially when you get to start the next down on the three
yard line? Of course not! Buck up! Have hope! More sports analogies are
coming!!!

17. Finally and most importantly, over 55 million Americans voted for the
candidate dubbed "The #1 Liberal in the Senate." That's more than the total
number of voters who voted for either Reagan, Bush I, Clinton or Gore.
Again, more people voted for Kerry than Reagan. If the media are looking for
a trend it should be this -- that so many Americans were, for the first time
since Kennedy, willing to vote for an out-and-out liberal. The country has
always been filled with evangelicals -- that is not news. What IS news is
that so many people have shifted toward a Massachusetts liberal. In fact,
that's BIG news. Which means, don't expect the mainstream media, the ones
who brought you the Iraq War, to ever report the real truth about November
2, 2004. In fact, it's better that they don't. We'll need the element of
surprise in 2008.

Feeling better? I hope so. As my friend Mort wrote me yesterday, "My
Romanian grandfather used to say to me, 'Remember, Morton, this is such a
wonderful country -- it doesn't even need a president!'"

But it needs us. Rest up, I'll write you again tomorrow.

Yours,

Michael Moore
[email protected]
www.michaelmoore.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
2) Yes, and let us not forget what a BAD (sarcasim) President Woodrow Wilson was....


Thomas Woodrow Wilson
Born: 12/28/1856
Birthplace: Staunton, Va.
Presidency

Wilson's gubernatorial record brought him to the forefront of national politics. Although Champ Clark was the leading contender for the presidential nomination at the Democratic convention in 1912, he could not muster the necessary two-thirds vote, and after he had exhausted his strength, Wilson won on the 46th ballot. He was helped by the switch to his side of William Jennings Bryan (prompted by Edward M. House). The split in the Republican party, which divided into the regular Republicans supporting William Howard Taft and the Progressive party backing Theodore Roosevelt, gained the election for Wilson, who captured 435 electoral votes.
Domestic Policy

Wilson revived the custom, abandoned in 1801, of addressing Congress in person and immediately called for a series of reforms, which he had called the “New Freedom” in his presidential campaign. During his administration the tariff was drastically decreased (1913; see Underwood, Oscar Wilder); the Federal Reserve System was instituted (1913); the La Follette Seamen's Act, regulating labor conditions aboard ship, became law (1915); the Adamson Act, establishing an eight-hour day for railroad employees, was enacted (1916); and the Federal Farm Loan Act, providing for loans to cooperative farm associations, was passed (1916). Wilson continued the policy of curbing monopoly by creating (1914) the Federal Trade Commission to investigate and expose unfair practices of corporations, pushed the passage (1914) of the Clayton Antitrust Act, and instituted antitrust proceedings in 92 cases. The Seventeenth Amendment, providing for the direct popular election of U.S. Senators, the Eighteenth Amendment, which instituted prohibition, and the Nineteenth Amendment, by which women received the vote, were all launched while Wilson was President.
Foreign Policy

In foreign affairs the Wilson administration was faced with mounting difficulties. In Mexico, a revolution brought (Feb., 1913) Victoriano Huerta to the presidency. Wilson refused to recognize Huerta on the grounds that he had gained power by assassinating his predecessor, and instead resorted to a policy of “watchful waiting.” In 1914, this policy ended when U.S. marines landed in Veracruz in retaliation for the arrest of U.S. sailors in Tampico. Mediation by Argentina, Brazil, and Chile prevented war but failed to settle the aggravated situation. After Huerta was driven from power, new troubles arose from the internal situation in Mexico. The raid of Francisco (“Pancho”) Villa across the U.S. border resulted in the punitive expedition (1916) into Mexico led by John J. Pershing. Border incidents continued, and relations between the two countries remained unfriendly. During this period, Wilson also sent U.S. troops to Haiti (1915), the Dominican Republic (1916), and Cuba (1917), and established protectorates over the first two. In his East Asian policy, notably his refusal (1913) to support loans to China by American bankers, Wilson openly rejected “dollar diplomacy.”
World War I

The outbreak of World War I in Europe overshadowed all other problems. Secretary of State William Jennings Bryan, who scrupulously favored neutrality, resigned (1915) and was succeeded by Robert Lansing, who tended to favor intervention on the side of the Allies. Wilson during his first term nevertheless sought by all diplomatic means to maintain an impartial neutrality. American public opinion, however, increasingly mounted against Germany, and the sinking (May 7, 1915) of the Lusitania by a German submarine aroused a storm of protest. After the sinking (Mar. 24, 1916) of the American vessel Sussex, Wilson issued an ultimatum to which Germany responded with a pledge to cease its unrestricted submarine attacks. Trouble over shipping also occurred with Great Britain in its effort to enforce the blockade of Germany. In the 1916 election, the Democratic campaign slogan, “He kept us out of war,” helped return Wilson to the White House; Charles Evans Hughes was defeated by a very close margin. Wilson immediately attempted to mediate between the warring nations, but without success. Relations with Germany became more and more tense, especially after the announcement (Jan. 31, 1917) by Germany of a renewal of unrestricted submarine warfare.

On Feb. 3, Wilson broke diplomatic relations with Germany. Several more U.S. vessels were sunk, and on Apr. 2, 1917, Wilson asked Congress to declare war on Germany. In his war message Wilson stated that “the world must be made safe for democracy” and that the United States would wage war for liberty and peace. War was declared Apr. 6. Wilson's speeches, elaborating his war aims, did much to consolidate U.S. opinion behind his policies as the country mobilized. In addition to the establishment of a fighting force, war industries were placed under government control and the President was given wide powers over the production and distribution of food and fuel. Late in Dec., 1917, Wilson put the railroads under government operation. The Committee on Public Information was established to propagandize for the war.
The Fourteen Points and the Peace Conference

In Jan., 1918, prompted by the publication by the Bolshevik revolutionary government in Russia of secret treaties that revealed the imperialistic war aims of the Allies, Wilson presented the Fourteen Points to Congress; these outlined the basic provisions that he believed the peace settlement must cover. As the war drew to a close and preparations were begun for a peace conference, Wilson was generally looked upon in Europe as the savior of the future. In the United States, however, he suffered an electoral setback in Nov., 1918, after appealing for the return of a Democratic Congress as an endorsement of his foreign policy; the Republicans captured both houses of Congress.

Shortly afterward (December) Wilson set sail for Europe as head of the U.S. delegation to the Paris Peace Conference; his attendance broke all American precedents. Angry at Republican criticism, Wilson did not include any active Republican, or any Senator, on the peace commission. Wilson was received in Europe with warm ovations and set about trying to create a new world society, which would be governed by the “self-determination of peoples,” which would be free from secret diplomacy and wars, and, most important, which would have an association of nations to maintain international justice.

At the peace conference he became involved in long and bitter wrangles with Georges Clemenceau, David Lloyd George, Vittorio Orlando, and the other representatives of European powers. The resulting treaty (see Versailles, Treaty of) was far from being the fulfillment of his dream, although he did secure the adoption of the covenant establishing the League of Nations. Wilson accepted the treaty as being the best obtainable.
Disillusionment and Death

At home, opposition to the League had been growing, and when Wilson returned (July, 1919) with the signed treaty, his accomplishments at Paris were received with mixed feelings. In the Senate, quarrels over the ratification of the treaty and the proposed amendments broke out immediately. In the group that emerged as opponents of the League, Henry Cabot Lodge was outstanding. Nevertheless, despite the agitation of a handful of “irreconcilables,” the Senate would probably have ratified the treaty if certain reservations protecting U.S. sovereignty had been added. Wilson, however, refused to compromise and sought popular support by making a speaking tour of the United States. He was on his way east from the Pacific coast when fatigue and strain brought on a sudden physical breakdown in Sept., 1919, and forced him to cancel his trip.

On Oct. 2, 1919, the President suffered a stroke, which incapacitated him for several months. He never entirely recovered, and for the remainder of his second term, Wilson, bitterly disillusioned, was virtually detached from the political scene. It has been postulated that he was so ill that his wife, Edith Bolling Wilson, made virtually all his political decisions for him. He continued to be uncompromising in his refusal to accept reservations on the League. Three years after the expiration of his term he died. His character and policies have been the subject of acrimonious debate, but even those who have doubted his wisdom have recognized him as one of the pivotal figures of American and world history.

4) Obviously a majority the American people didn’t like where Kerry said he was going to take us otherwise he would have won……..Moore can you say “sour grapes”….Moore is just pissy because he was denied any sort of election foul up in Florida and therefore couldn’t make any money from it.

7) Now he is blaming Ohio for the rest of the nations voting habits. Get a friggin life Moore!

10) A typical Moore response….which actually sounds kind of racist if you think about. Is he saying the only reason those people were given those jobs is because they are black and not because they are qualified? ……what was the name of Moore’s movie….oh ya…..”Stupid White Men”….I hope he included himself in that category.

11) I don’t care……I don’t drink Coors.

12) Lame.

 

[Jeff Boler]

Yup.
--- nothing even remotely similar to September 11......

Uh...I think you forget the fact that Clinton was offered Bin Laden on multiple occassion, and refused. So.....had Clinton done his job, 9-11 may have never happened.

That's the selective memory that the Democratic party has....

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Let’s not forget that Clinton was such a “great” President that he was impeached!!

For lying about a hummer. The entire Whitewater investigation drums up nothing on Bill and Hillary. Lacking anything to hit him on, they go for the stain on the dress. Big whoop.

Bush lies...but not under oath, admittedly...and he gets us into an unjustified war and over a thousand American's get whacked. The country gets polarized. Our national treasure is depleted.




Regards,


Steve

 

[RRouuselot]

Let’s not forget that Clinton was such a “great” President that he was impeached!!

For lying about a hummer. The entire Whitewater investigation drums up nothing on Bill and Hillary. Lacking anything to hit him on, they go for the stain on the dress. Big whoop.

Bush lies...but not under oath, admittedly...and he gets us into an unjustified war and over a thousand American's get whacked. The country gets polarized. Our national treasure is depleted.

Regards,


Steve

It sucks that more Americans have to die and that the people that are trying to put Iraq back together pay for that privilage by having their heads cut off by some thugs.

What would you have done if you were in chanrge?
I can say as I would have taken the same route as Bush by going into Iraq...but I certainly wouldn't sit around and take it up the backside like Clinton did.

Maybe we should be like the French.......NOT!!!

 

[heretic888]

That's the selective memory that the Democratic party has....

I'm a Democrat?? Hold on, lemme check...

*fumbles through wallet*
*checks voter registration card*

... nope, 'fraid not. Registered independent. Actually voted for Bush in 2000, too (much to my shame).

Nice try, though. :asian:

 

[heretic888]

I can say as I would have taken the same route as Bush by going into Iraq...

I wouldn't.

If I was planning on blasting the hell out of any country on the basis of them being an active threat to the United States, supporting terrorism, having potential WMDs, and being uncompromising in diplomatic discussions --- then, Iran, Syria, and Saudi Arabia would be on the top of my hit list.

Iraq, unfortunately, doesn't meet any of these criteria.

Maybe we should be like the French.......NOT!!!

Ah, the "French card". How delightful. Good to know the Right is being consistent on that issue, at the very least.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

What would you have done if you were in chanrge?

Given the inspectors the time they requested.

Prior to the invasion they were saying the very things Bush's man David Kay is saying now: There were no WMD's. Iraq had no capacity to make nuclear weapons.

Prior to the invasion many Democrats, a few Republicans and some members of the intelligence community were saying the very thing the bi-partisan 9-11 Commission is now saying: There was no credible Iraq/9-11 connection.

I can say as I would have taken the same route as Bush by going into Iraq...but I certainly wouldn't sit around and take it up the backside like Clinton did.

Nor would I. Last I checked, Clinton wasn't on the ticket for this election. The issue is whether we should be doing at George Bush is doing it now, not how Clinton did it then. Complaining about Clinton does nothing to solve the problems facing our country now.

I note you try to steer the argument away from the issue at hand by brining up old dead issues that are irrelevant. This indicates an inability on your part to debate with confidence. In order to cover up that inability, you attempt to shift the focus. Like below:

Maybe we should be like the French.......NOT!!!

Also irrelevant. As Heretic pointed out, you're pulling out "The French Card", as if that lends any weight to your arguments. It doesn't. Maybe we should be like the Polish? They're part of the "Coalition of the Willing". Maybe we should be like the Papuans? They too support our war in Iraq.

I suspect you don't want to be like them either, do you? Bringing them up is every bit as ridiculous as lambasting the French. It solves nothing. It says nothing. It means nothing.

But it does add a healthy dose of Omega-3 rich fatty acids to your diet via a serving of red herring.



Regards,


Steve